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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/8/2008 11:17:05 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Check out this site, put up by the Democrat asking for a genuine copy of the original birth certificate and what the DNC has actually filed. It's very enlightening.
The issue is that Obama and Factcheck are talking about a certificate that simply says a birth certificate exists. But, they have NOT produced a genune, certified copy of the original birth certificate. And, the question, which is a legitimate one is, "Why Not?"
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
It's also linked from Fox News and Michael Savage:
I'd appreciate a link to the Fox News source, since I don't put much credit in Mr. Savage.
Hmmm, Michael Savage IS part of Fox no? If not, I thought he was, sorry. I am not sure if Hannity talked specifically about this this week. I vaguely remember it.
Michael Savage talked specifically about this issue today on the radio and encouraged listeners to goto his website for a link to more info, which I just did tonight. Again, I don't know much about it. I just heard it today actually. So I checked Savage's site and saw the link.
And the first thing that popped up was that Obama's own family (grandmother and half sister/brother) all said he was born in Kenya. And no birth certificate was found in Hawaii......My main thing was why would his own family members....several of them ALL say that? What motive if not that it was true?....They all said they WITNESSED his birth in Kenya. So that part seemed so strong to me. As for more verification, we shoudl definitely seek more like you said, by searchign online, except I'm dead sleepy tired.
(p.s. Michael Savage has millions of viewers and is very well-known, so I don't think he'd just lie about the facts on this. Whether he KNOWS whether or not Obama's family did say Obaama was born in Kenya is not known to me. I don't recall him specifically saying that, because I caught the tail-end of the convo on radio. I was also pre-occupied from driving, but I remember he just said, "check the link on my website, whre I have more informatin.")
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/8/2008 11:22:27 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 345
Joined: 5/7/2007
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If the matter of whether or not Obama was born on American soil could so easily be proved, why is Obama, or anyone else, so reluctant to provide the proof?
When are politicians, going to learn that trying to cover something up, even if you may be perfectly innocent, usually ends up much worse than being open about the origional charges.
This whole issue may indeed be about nothing but not being open about the issue is going to harm Obama in the long run.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/8/2008 11:44:15 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
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The problem for the country is that the issue will not go away even if he becomes president. It will always be over his head waiting to bring him down.
Here is the issue. Original birth certificates are relatively complex documents. Here is a sample of the U.S. Standard Certificate of Live Birth.
While Birth Certicates might have been less complex they are not nearly as sparse as the document that Obama has produced. What he should produce is a photocopy of the original document that was signed by his mother and the attending physician. That is NOT what he has produced.
Here is a WikiAnswers discussion of the difference between the photocopy document and the short form that Obama claims is his 'birth certificate'. It concerns Florida; but, the principles are the same.
One has to ask why the DNC decided to ask for relief from DISCOVERY? You would think that as serious as this question is, they would WELCOME DISCOVERY?
If they think they can escape this once Obama is in office, they are sadly mistaken. Perhaps they feel that it would amount to such a constitutional crisis that people would be loath to find that he was not qualified by birth. But, they are wrong.
As I find samples of other states' Certificates of Live Birth, I will post them here. People should understand that what Obama, and unfortunately FactCheck.org are calling a birth certificate is NOT a photocopy of the original document.
California Certificate of Live Birth
Idaho Certificate of Live Birth
***********************************************************
THE FOLLOWING ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS IN THIS MESSAGE!
***********************************************************
Here is a link to a post by a person that has a genuine Hawaii Certificate of Birth for 1971. They claim that it does not look at all like the one Obama is claiming to be official. In fact, they've posted images that show the radical differences in the following link.
Actual Hawaii Birth Certificate side-by-side with Obama's claimed certificate.
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
If the matter of whether or not Obama was born on American soil could so easily be proved, why is Obama, or anyone else, so reluctant to provide the proof?
When are politicians, going to learn that trying to cover something up, even if you may be perfectly innocent, usually ends up much worse than being open about the origional charges.
This whole issue may indeed be about nothing but not being open about the issue is going to harm Obama in the long run.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 10/9/2008 12:18:47 AM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 4:41:44 AM
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Ex-GOPer4Obama
Posts: 38
Joined: 8/20/2008
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This is SO typical of the Republicans. They try to hide their candidates' own shortcomings by accusing their opponents of the very same things.
McCain was born in PANAMA, so his people try to smear Obama with the exact same kind of suspicion. (Do you REALLY think Obama could be elected to the United States Senate without anyone checking his birth certificate? This has got to be another ridiculous e-mail hoax.)
McCain was 1/5 of the Keating Five, yet Rove's minions are scurrying about trying to make folks believe that Obama's brushes with various people are in any way comparable to what McCain was directly involved in.
Then there's Palin, who is under investigation for abusing her powers, yet she feels free to be out reciting the malicious talking points from the hatemongers at McCain Central, inspiring at least one of the mindless oafs at her rally to shout out that he wanted to KILL somebody. Just when you thought no one could do more than George W. Bush to turn people off to Christianity, along comes Palin. Assuming that she actually read the New York Times article and not just the twisted interpretation in the speech notes she was given, Palin knowingly misrepresented the facts in the article to try to imply that Obama had been in cahoots with a terrorist. Accusing a United States senator of treason is serious stuff, especially coming from the wife of former card-carrying member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
Even if this nonsense about Obama's citizenship is just a tall tale, this wish for some technicality by which to disqualify Barack Obama certainly shows what the GOP is made of. What a bunch of cheats!
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 6:54:11 AM
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Closie
Posts: 304
Joined: 4/14/2005
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A former faculty member is an American teaching in Greece. Her husband is Greek and her kids were born there. The family will return here for the 2010-2011 school year. Are those children American citizens and would they eligible to run for president in 35 years?
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 8:33:41 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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Trolls for Obama strike again!
Since August we have been inundated by people having one agenda, distort the truth, stop the truth and attack the truth about Obama. But, they are counting on people being easily intimidated by shouting. They are wrong.
Let me say this one more time in simple sentences. I'll even do it by the numbers so you don't get it mixed up.
1) Every person born in the United States seeking to be president has a birth certificate signed by a physician and can request a PHOTOCOPY of that certificate.
2) The only persona that can request a copy of that live birth certificate are the parent or the child.
3) Obama has chosen, for whatever reason, NOT to request one. That is suspicious, especially since relatives in Kenya rightly or wrongly claimed he was born there.
4) Children of military parents with U.S. Citizenship are automatically U.S. Citizens no matter where they are born.
5) If it is a tall tale, then don't just CLAIM it is a tall tale, prove it by producing what every other American can do... produce the PHOTOCOPY of the original certificate of live birth.
6) Lemmings make great little mouthpieces... especially when trolling for opportunities to run cover for the object of their affection as if they had real facts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ex-GOPer4Obama
This is SO typical of the Republicans. They try to hide their candidates' own shortcomings by accusing their opponents of the very same things.
McCain was born in PANAMA, so his people try to smear Obama with the exact same kind of suspicion. (Do you REALLY think Obama could be elected to the United States Senate without anyone checking his birth certificate? This has got to be another ridiculous e-mail hoax.)
McCain was 1/5 of the Keating Five, yet Rove's minions are scurrying about trying to make folks believe that Obama's brushes with various people are in any way comparable to what McCain was directly involved in.
Then there's Palin, who is under investigation for abusing her powers, yet she feels free to be out reciting the malicious talking points from the hatemongers at McCain Central, inspiring at least one of the mindless oafs at her rally to shout out that he wanted to KILL somebody. Just when you thought no one could do more than George W. Bush to turn people off to Christianity, along comes Palin. Assuming that she actually read the New York Times article and not just the twisted interpretation in the speech notes she was given, Palin knowingly misrepresented the facts in the article to try to imply that Obama had been in cahoots with a terrorist. Accusing a United States senator of treason is serious stuff, especially coming from the wife of former card-carrying member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
Even if this nonsense about Obama's citizenship is just a tall tale, this wish for some technicality by which to disqualify Barack Obama certainly shows what the GOP is made of. What a bunch of cheats!
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 8:35:55 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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They would have to choose the country of their citizenship and declare it at or before the age of 21. Children of Military families are under different rules.
I can't do it right now; but, I'll look up the precise rules.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
A former faculty member is an American teaching in Greece. Her husband is Greek and her kids were born there. The family will return here for the 2010-2011 school year. Are those children American citizens and would they eligible to run for president in 35 years?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 10:48:01 AM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 409
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
DNC steps ion to silence Lawsuit over Obama birth certificate
The above link takes you to a discussion on www.FreeRepublic.com about Obama's citizenship.
Seems a Pennsylvania democrat has been trying to get a copy of Obama's birth certificate (or get proof that Obama was born in the US or it's territories) for a while. He finally filed a lawsuit alleging that Obama is not a natural born citizen and is thus not eligible to be President.
This has been going on for months. Finally the DNC has stepped in and filed a motion to dismiss the suit.
Lots of good discussion on FreeRepublic (which is why I posted the link). One point that makes a lot of sense to me is "if Obama has a certificate, why doesn't he just show it and prove he's a citizen. The way the situation is being handled leads one to belive that he does not have a certificate and iis thus not eligible OR he is totally inept at handling little things like this (which come to think of it, would make him ineligible in a different way)"
Conspiracy theory. For one, I'm not so sure the DNC would even approve of Obama running if there was the slightest idea he wasn't a natural born citizen. I know old ladies who have gotten pulled over in the security line at airports who lack proper ID. I can't believe our government is that inept. Second, If Obama's Birth Certificate was even a mild issue, do you not think Clinton in all her power and might would've called for disqualification? The Clintons have connections. If this issue held any weight, it would certainly be bigger news than Rev. Wright and Bittergate. Third, if you think background checks to even sit in the same room with the President were thorough, imagine what they'd be like if you are a major party nominee. It's not hard to find out where a person was born. Lastly, I doubt the secret service would put men's lives in danger protecting someone who could be disqualified for not being born in the US.
Even for those who say the DNC is helping Obama cover something up, it is my opinion that if there was doubt, they would've fully backed Clinton, a sure bet, not Obama, who had everything against him.
This is just another rumor to make Obama seem "un-american."
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:05:21 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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I will ask you two simple questions.
Question #1
If I asked you to produce a Photocopy of your original Birth Certificate with the physician's signature, could you manage to procure it?
Of course you could.
Question #2
If you and every other American can do this, why can't Obama?
I will go one step further and put out a call for ANYONE that tried; but, was unable to get a Photocopy of their original birth certicate to let us know. I will be amazed if we find even one person in the thousands that read these forums who can say they tried and failed. Just one.
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
DNC steps ion to silence Lawsuit over Obama birth certificate
The above link takes you to a discussion on www.FreeRepublic.com about Obama's citizenship.
Seems a Pennsylvania democrat has been trying to get a copy of Obama's birth certificate (or get proof that Obama was born in the US or it's territories) for a while. He finally filed a lawsuit alleging that Obama is not a natural born citizen and is thus not eligible to be President.
This has been going on for months. Finally the DNC has stepped in and filed a motion to dismiss the suit.
Lots of good discussion on FreeRepublic (which is why I posted the link). One point that makes a lot of sense to me is "if Obama has a certificate, why doesn't he just show it and prove he's a citizen. The way the situation is being handled leads one to belive that he does not have a certificate and iis thus not eligible OR he is totally inept at handling little things like this (which come to think of it, would make him ineligible in a different way)"
Conspiracy theory. For one, I'm not so sure the DNC would even approve of Obama running if there was the slightest idea he wasn't a natural born citizen. I know old ladies who have gotten pulled over in the security line at airports who lack proper ID. I can't believe our government is that inept. Second, If Obama's Birth Certificate was even a mild issue, do you not think Clinton in all her power and might would've called for disqualification? The Clintons have connections. If this issue held any weight, it would certainly be bigger news than Rev. Wright and Bittergate. Third, if you think background checks to even sit in the same room with the President were thorough, imagine what they'd be like if you are a major party nominee. It's not hard to find out where a person was born. Lastly, I doubt the secret service would put men's lives in danger protecting someone who could be disqualified for not being born in the US.
Even for those who say the DNC is helping Obama cover something up, it is my opinion that if there was doubt, they would've fully backed Clinton, a sure bet, not Obama, who had everything against him.
This is just another rumor to make Obama seem "un-american."
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:16:19 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1270
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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I'm on the third or fourth issue of my birth certificate from the county clerk because I kept losing them :) It is really very easy to do and only costs about $10 around here.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:17:41 AM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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Obama's mother is an American cititzen, that makes him one as well based on our own laws. This is a non-issue and quite frankly it borders on racism in my opinion. Are the Republicans making the same demands of information from John McCain? He was born in Panama, since that's not U.S. soil he's not a citizen after all.
Please. It's all asenine and needs to stop. From both sides.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:17:43 AM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 409
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I will ask you two simple questions.
Question #1
If I asked you to produce a Photocopy of your original Birth Certificate with the physician's signature, could you manage to procure it?
Of course you could.
Question #2
If you and every other American can do this, why can't Obama?
I will go one step further and put out a call for ANYONE that tried; but, was unable to get a Photocopy of their original birth certicate to let us know. I will be amazed if we find even one person in the thousands that read these forums who can say they tried and failed. Just one.
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
DNC steps ion to silence Lawsuit over Obama birth certificate
The above link takes you to a discussion on www.FreeRepublic.com about Obama's citizenship.
Seems a Pennsylvania democrat has been trying to get a copy of Obama's birth certificate (or get proof that Obama was born in the US or it's territories) for a while. He finally filed a lawsuit alleging that Obama is not a natural born citizen and is thus not eligible to be President.
This has been going on for months. Finally the DNC has stepped in and filed a motion to dismiss the suit.
Lots of good discussion on FreeRepublic (which is why I posted the link). One point that makes a lot of sense to me is "if Obama has a certificate, why doesn't he just show it and prove he's a citizen. The way the situation is being handled leads one to belive that he does not have a certificate and iis thus not eligible OR he is totally inept at handling little things like this (which come to think of it, would make him ineligible in a different way)"
Conspiracy theory. For one, I'm not so sure the DNC would even approve of Obama running if there was the slightest idea he wasn't a natural born citizen. I know old ladies who have gotten pulled over in the security line at airports who lack proper ID. I can't believe our government is that inept. Second, If Obama's Birth Certificate was even a mild issue, do you not think Clinton in all her power and might would've called for disqualification? The Clintons have connections. If this issue held any weight, it would certainly be bigger news than Rev. Wright and Bittergate. Third, if you think background checks to even sit in the same room with the President were thorough, imagine what they'd be like if you are a major party nominee. It's not hard to find out where a person was born. Lastly, I doubt the secret service would put men's lives in danger protecting someone who could be disqualified for not being born in the US.
Even for those who say the DNC is helping Obama cover something up, it is my opinion that if there was doubt, they would've fully backed Clinton, a sure bet, not Obama, who had everything against him.
This is just another rumor to make Obama seem "un-american."
#1. No I couldn't. But I have a copy sitting on my desk. Had to have a copy in order to get married in Jamaica this year.
#2. I'm not sure most people have their original copies. My wife didn't even have her original.
What does this have to do with the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, NSA, and Homeland Security not being able to answer whether Obama is a Citizen or not? Are they all in league with Obama? Like I said before, if this issue held any weight, Clinton would've pounced on it. His origins were brought up well before the democratic primaries were over.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:20:01 AM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1396
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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I will in no way vote for Senator Obama, but I will not be part of spreading any kind of talk about him that is not true ... even if was born in Kenya (and I do believe that he was born in Hawaii), he was born to an American citizen which means, according to the constitution, he is a natural born citizen.
Title 8 of the U.S. Code Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Edited to clarify: Obama's dad at one time had dual citizenship, both from Kenya and the USA. He lost his Kenya citizenship and was a US citizen. His mam was also a citizen. So, as you can see, even if he was born in Kenya, he would still be a natural born citizen, the requirement he needs to be President of the United States.
< Message edited by Psalms274 -- 10/9/2008 11:28:27 AM >
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 11:32:47 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
Conspiracy theory. For one, I'm not so sure the DNC would even approve of Obama running if there was the slightest idea he wasn't a natural born citizen.
My own feeling is that the Obama train had left the station before the DNC even had a wiff of potential problems.
quote:
I know old ladies who have gotten pulled over in the security line at airports who lack proper ID. I can't believe our government is that inept.
My wife works for the government and I live in the DC area. It is. Believe me... IT IS.
quote:
Second, If Obama's Birth Certificate was even a mild issue, do you not think Clinton in all her power and might would've called for disqualification? The Clintons have connections. If this issue held any weight, it would certainly be bigger news than Rev. Wright and Bittergate.
Again, one has to work within one's party. I think she tought her nomination was in the bag until the last minute thinking others would bring up these kind of issues. In facr, it is one of her supporters that brought the suit.
quote:
Third, if you think background checks to even sit in the same room with the President were thorough, imagine what they'd be like if you are a major party nominee.
Many of those that served in Clinton's White House would not have been able to get a security clearance under normal circumstances. It's actually unlikely that Clinto could have gotten a security clearance under normal circumstances. But, the FBI is NOT going to step in and deny a popular polical candidate for fear of being tarred as interferring with the election process.
quote:
It's not hard to find out where a person was born.
You are absolutey right. For just about every single American it would be simple to find corraborating evidence of one's place of birth. But, so far not one nurse, physician or neighbor of Obama's mother has come forward to claim that they were there when he was born. The fact that no one has come forward for a popular presidential candidate to calim that they knew him as a baby is startling!
quote:
Lastly, I doubt the secret service would put men's lives in danger protecting someone who could be disqualified for not being born in the US.
It is the Secret Service's job under their oath to protect any and all candidates for president irregardless of their personal knowledge or view of him or her. Again, the Secret Service is NOT the final arbitor of who is or is not qualified to run for president or even sit as president. That is OUR job and the job of the courts, when called upon.
quote:
Even for those who say the DNC is helping Obama cover something up, it is my opinion that if there was doubt, they would've fully backed Clinton, a sure bet, not Obama, who had everything against him.
Again. this is a pretty naive view of a political machine. So, aren't you even the LEAST bit curious as to why the DNC wants to even squelch DISCOVERY? That alone, for anything other than kool-aide drinkers, should raise a few eyebrows. Something stinks in those waters.
quote:
This is just another rumor to make Obama seem "un-american."
No, it's simply an investigation to ensure that our laws are followed and that a person sitting in the presidential seat is qualified under our nation's Consitution. It may not matter to you. But, it does matter to a lot of American's that feel the Constition means something.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 12:00:20 PM
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phreddy
Posts: 280
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline
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I have two daughters and neither of thier official birth certificates issued by our state have signatures of the doctor on them. They are computer printouts of the details of their births with an official seal stamped on them.
However, it seems that Obama could stop this lawsuit in a heartbeat after discovery. Produce the document and file for dismissal. Case over.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 12:10:24 PM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 409
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
Conspiracy theory. For one, I'm not so sure the DNC would even approve of Obama running if there was the slightest idea he wasn't a natural born citizen.
My own feeling is that the Obama train had left the station before the DNC even had a wiff of potential problems.
quote:
I know old ladies who have gotten pulled over in the security line at airports who lack proper ID. I can't believe our government is that inept.
My wife works for the government and I live in the DC area. It is. Believe me... IT IS.
quote:
Second, If Obama's Birth Certificate was even a mild issue, do you not think Clinton in all her power and might would've called for disqualification? The Clintons have connections. If this issue held any weight, it would certainly be bigger news than Rev. Wright and Bittergate.
Again, one has to work within one's party. I think she tought her nomination was in the bag until the last minute thinking others would bring up these kind of issues. In facr, it is one of her supporters that brought the suit.
quote:
Third, if you think background checks to even sit in the same room with the President were thorough, imagine what they'd be like if you are a major party nominee.
Many of those that served in Clinton's White House would not have been able to get a security clearance under normal circumstances. It's actually unlikely that Clinto could have gotten a security clearance under normal circumstances. But, the FBI is NOT going to step in and deny a popular polical candidate for fear of being tarred as interferring with the election process.
quote:
It's not hard to find out where a person was born.
You are absolutey right. For just about every single American it would be simple to find corraborating evidence of one's place of birth. But, so far not one nurse, physician or neighbor of Obama's mother has come forward to claim that they were there when he was born. The fact that no one has come forward for a popular presidential candidate to calim that they knew him as a baby is startling!
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Lastly, I doubt the secret service would put men's lives in danger protecting someone who could be disqualified for not being born in the US.
It is the Secret Service's job under their oath to protect any and all candidates for president irregardless of their personal knowledge or view of him or her. Again, the Secret Service is NOT the final arbitor of who is or is not qualified to run for president or even sit as president. That is OUR job and the job of the courts, when called upon.
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Even for those who say the DNC is helping Obama cover something up, it is my opinion that if there was doubt, they would've fully backed Clinton, a sure bet, not Obama, who had everything against him.
Again. this is a pretty naive view of a political machine. So, aren't you even the LEAST bit curious as to why the DNC wants to even squelch DISCOVERY? That alone, for anything other than kool-aide drinkers, should raise a few eyebrows. Something stinks in those waters.
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This is just another rumor to make Obama seem "un-american."
No, it's simply an investigation to ensure that our laws are followed and that a person sitting in the presidential seat is qualified under our nation's Consitution. It may not matter to you. But, it does matter to a lot of American's that feel the Constition means something.
Wow. lol I guess you could explain away every American's evidence of being naturally born. I'm pretty sure everyone of us would have a hard time tracking down doctors and nurses who were there when someone was born. Especially when you figure the number of babies born at one hospital. At any rate, this is a non-issue and pure conspiracy. The FBI, NSA, CIA, Secret Service, now Congress, and Homeland Security are all so inept that they can't verify natural born citizens running for President. Yet, they can foil all these planned attacks since 9/11 domestic and foreign. That's such a far stretch, your arms would have to be rubber. It's tantamount to believing that Elvis is frozen and will be chosen to run as President in 2026.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 12:36:38 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3966
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
A former faculty member is an American teaching in Greece. Her husband is Greek and her kids were born there. The family will return here for the 2010-2011 school year. Are those children American citizens and would they eligible to run for president in 35 years?
Hawaii was admitted to the union in 1959. Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii. This issue has been revived, along with the He's a Muslim/Terrorist? Blah-blah because McCain, unfortunately, has been unable to win an issues-focused campaign and the economy has tanked. We see that there is nothing left but these feeble tactic by anti-Obama people, many who do not even support McCain.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 12:39:13 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3966
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I will ask you two simple questions.
Question #1
If I asked you to produce a Photocopy of your original Birth Certificate with the physician's signature, could you manage to procure it?
Of course you could.
Question #2
If you and every other American can do this, why can't Obama?
I will go one step further and put out a call for ANYONE that tried; but, was unable to get a Photocopy of their original birth certicate to let us know. I will be amazed if we find even one person in the thousands that read these forums who can say they tried and failed. Just one.
I needed one so I could get a passport. I got one similar to Obama's. I was born in Virginia. Not a photocopy of the original. Sorry to disappoint you.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 1:18:54 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
Wow. lol I guess you could explain away every American's evidence of being naturally born. I'm pretty sure everyone of us would have a hard time tracking down doctors and nurses who were there when someone was born. Especially when you figure the number of babies born at one hospital. At any rate, this is a non-issue and pure conspiracy. The FBI, NSA, CIA, Secret Service, now Congress, and Homeland Security are all so inept that they can't verify natural born citizens running for President. Yet, they can foil all these planned attacks since 9/11 domestic and foreign. That's such a far stretch, your arms would have to be rubber. It's tantamount to believing that Elvis is frozen and will be chosen to run as President in 2026.
Do you every actually listen to ANYTHING?
Let me try to say this slowly...
Every original certificate of live birth must be filled out and signed by a physician. All Obama has to do is to produce a copy of that and the case is closed. So, far he has refused.
As for the greater point of those who might remember his birth being in Hawaii, I can assure you that I am MUCH older than Obama and I can point out a number of people that not only remember when I was born; but, the hospital in which I was born. A person as young as Obama, with an activist mother, SURELY could find SOMEONE who remembers his birth besides his relatives in Kenya who seem to think THEY were at his birth in Kenya!!!
I explained why your expected vetting by various agencies cannot happen. You would be blaming it on the Bush administration and rasing cane if one of these agencies even hinted at keeping him from taking office or even running for office. None of the agencies that you have mentioned can lift a single finger even if they know him to b e lying about his birthplace,
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 1:22:52 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
Wow. lol I guess you could explain away every American's evidence of being naturally born. I'm pretty sure everyone of us would have a hard time tracking down doctors and nurses who were there when someone was born. Especially when you figure the number of babies born at one hospital. At any rate, this is a non-issue and pure conspiracy. The FBI, NSA, CIA, Secret Service, now Congress, and Homeland Security are all so inept that they can't verify natural born citizens running for President. Yet, they can foil all these planned attacks since 9/11 domestic and foreign. That's such a far stretch, your arms would have to be rubber. It's tantamount to believing that Elvis is frozen and will be chosen to run as President in 2026.
Do you every actually listen to ANYTHING?
Let me try to say this slowly...
Every original certificate of live birth must be filled out and signed by a physician. All Obama has to do is to produce a copy of that and the case is closed. So, far he has refused.
As for the greater point of those who might remember his birth being in Hawaii, I can assure you that I am MUCH older than Obama and I can point out a number of people that not only remember when I was born; but, the hospital in which I was born. A person as young as Obama, with an activist mother, SURELY could find SOMEONE who remembers his birth besides his relatives in Kenya who seem to think THEY were at his birth in Kenya!!!
I explained why your expected vetting by various agencies cannot happen. You would be blaming it on the Bush administration and rasing cane if one of these agencies even hinted at keeping him from taking office or even running for office. None of the agencies that you have mentioned can lift a single finger even if they know him to b e lying about his birthplace,
It doesn't matter if he was born overseas or not. His mother is an American citizen, as such he is a natural citizen of the United States by birth. Unless of course you're saying that the Constitution doesn't matter in this regard.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 1:25:16 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2118
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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The fact that Hawaii had been a state for two years makes it all the more likely that they would adhere to the standards of all the other states with regards to Certificates of Live Birth. It makes even more likely that every single child born in hawaii; but, our dear Mr. Obama, CAN produce a photocopy of their original long form certificate. You know, the one actually signed by a real live physician.
Failing his ability to do that, then your claims of desparation are just so much hot air. What is desparation is that fact that the DNC wants to squeelch DISCOVERY. People with nothing to hide rarely work so hard to keep people from finding documents.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
A former faculty member is an American teaching in Greece. Her husband is Greek and her kids were born there. The family will return here for the 2010-2011 school year. Are those children American citizens and would they eligible to run for president in 35 years?
Hawaii was admitted to the union in 1959. Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii. This issue has been revived, along with the He's a Muslim/Terrorist? Blah-blah because McCain, unfortunately, has been unable to win an issues-focused campaign and the economy has tanked. We see that there is nothing left but these feeble tactic by anti-Obama people, many who do not even support McCain.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Questioning Obama's citizenship Part II - 10/9/2008 1:34:58 PM
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Psalms274
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