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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/28/2008 6:58:02 PM
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pstrdebi
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From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceBro
I respectfully disagree. From the perspective of the individual that called Jesus "good teacher," he is using the same definition of good that you used in your OP. And that is that their are "good" people. Those, by human definition, we believe to be good (i.e. somebody who has done something beneficial to us or mankind). But, from God's perspective there are no good people. The fruit of the Spirit that is revealed in our walk with the Lord, as you alluded to above, is not the same thing as whether or not we are "good" people to begin with. Besides, the drug addict you call bad in your example, may not benefit from inheriting all that money. That money could be a curse, as much as it is a blessing, because it affords the addict more resources in which to endulge the sin they are already trapped in. Furthermore, we are not to judge ourselves by others. I would presume if you had come into a large some of money you wouldn't view it as something good happening to a bad person, right? After all, you're not a drug addict, a bottom-grabbing businessman or an underaged drinker, so you are not bad by your own definition. We all think we are "good" people.Therefore, we are the ones deserving of "good" things happening to us.
"All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Romans 3:12
If no one does good that means nobody is good. Because goodness can only come from an ultimate source of good. And that source is God. Anything we do that is good, from God's perspective, is only what He has done through us. Like I said before, if we were good, that means we are God, and only God is good. That is something none of us can ever be.
Grace and Peace
By God's grace and through His Spirit, I am good. I'm not perfect... but I am good. God tells us to exceed in all excellence... once again, He wouldn't tell us to do something... or attain something that we can't do. God doesn't play with smoke and mirrors... He isn't a trickster! I am good because God has given me the tools, the willpower, etc to be good. He has placed His Holy Spirit within me to help me be good. If I were bad... the Holy Spirit would take a hike.
We need to understand context... and in THAT context, Jesus' main purpose was for the man to understand WHO he was talking to.
In the verse above you have quoted... Paul is simply stating that the Jew's were no better than the Gentiles and visa-versa. He is telling us that because of our sin nature... that IF WE CHOOSE to stay in that sin, THEN we are not good.
Once again... God is not going to tell us to be good... if He doesn't expect us to do it. He doesn't play mind-games like humans do.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/28/2008 11:03:05 PM
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GraceBro
Posts: 325
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As I said before, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I can tell you are getting upset and I don't want to cause any separation. Thank you for the opportunity to address your question. I am sorry you didn't like my answer. If we can't have agreement, then at least we can have clarity.
Grace and Peace
_____________________________
www.livinggodministries.net
http://96toLife.blogspot.com
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/29/2008 8:39:43 AM
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URForgiven
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There is only One who is good, and it is not us.
God tells us what is required of us, if we presume to think we can make ourselves acceptable to Him. And what is required is impossible for us to attain, for the requirement is not just our best effort, what is required is perfection. His purpose is not to burden us with that which we are incapable of attaining, His purpose is to drive us to the One who is able, Jesus Christ.
I like the way that Major Ian Thomas puts it...
"The Christian life can only be explained in terms of Jesus Christ, and if your life as a Christian can still be explained in terms of you - your personality, your willpower, your gift, your talent, your money, your courage, your anything - then although you may have the Christian life, you are not yet living it!"
The Christian life is Christ, and only He can live it.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/29/2008 10:15:48 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1821
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quote:
"Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People?"
Like me? Because of JESUS. He is THE good thing that happened to this bad person, me.
If the church would begin confessing our sin, that we are truly bad and CANNOT be good, that ALL of our goodness comes from Jesus, perhaps the lost world would begin listening.
Jesus is my righteousness.  Thank You, Lord!
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 6:55:26 AM
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growingseed
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I like to say that every human being that is walking on this planet only exsist because of the breath of life given them. The author of that breath is God the father, even though they do not know this, they still are living through the grace of the father and they can't even see or understand this.
Also Satan blesses those who chose to follow his path or rather give themselves over to him. What did he tempt the Lord in are the things he promises to those that will take that offer, and from our stand point they may seem to be blessed, but their blessing is not eternal, and will lose their souls.
The same sun softens wax while hardens clay
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 10:52:23 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1821
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quote:
We CAN be good through obedience to Christ!
If we're being bad... the opposite of good... that means that those who claim to NOT BE GOOD... are in disobedience to God.
It's that simple.
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but to the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4
My badness is not disobedience, debi. It is believing what God says. I am bad. But in Christ I am the very righteousness of God. It is ALL Him, ALL His doing. We lose the simplicity of Christ when we think it is about us, about our doing. That's where the pharisees went wrong. Instead it is about believing, trusting Christ and living loved by Him. He is sanctifying me entirely, spirit, soul, and body and I will be found blameless at His coming. But not by my doing. By His doing.
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 11:39:27 AM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
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From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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We can go round and round with this... and quote scripture after scripture to show that in SIN we're bad... and i can send scripture to prove that God says we CAN be good.
Just because I don't buy into the "flogging" mentality, doesn't make me wrong... and if you thiNk you are right in calling yourself bad... then that's up to you (all who say this.)
But I'm not going to change my mind just because someone thinks I should call myself bad.
But as for me... God directs me to be good... and so in obedience to Him... I will be.
Plain and simple.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 11:54:13 AM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
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From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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Also... we're getting a little off topic. And I don't want to get into another heated discussion.
I love you guys and respect your personal opinions.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 12:38:08 PM
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growingseed
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It's hard to know the mind of the father let alone the mind of others, but i've seen were the good things that happen to people don't always bring what we know as blessings or something good, but rather give them a boost to continue in believing that their life style is the right way of life. But broad is the gate and many will travel the easy way of life, that without having to be responsable for their actions.
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 9/30/2008 8:50:01 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
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From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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I would like to apologize to my brothers and sisters in Christ for my insensitive comment about a "flogging mentality." That was very self-righteous of me and ask your forgiveness. Sometimes life takes it's toll on a person... but I shouldn't let that roll over into my posts.
I'm sorry.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/5/2008 3:53:35 PM
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jbow
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Well... I thought we were all bad people. Do you know some good people?
Your question is the only proper question of it's type. The usual question of "why do bad things happen to good people" starts with a bad, false premise and should be dismissed instead of answered.
Julien
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/7/2008 8:55:09 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
Well... I thought we were all bad people. Do you know some good people?
Your question is the only proper question of it's type. The usual question of "why do bad things happen to good people" starts with a bad, false premise and should be dismissed instead of answered.
Julien
I have to disagree with you here, on this premise: the why does bad things happen to good people means people who do good, care about others, have a good and kind, compassionate heart versus those who are mean, are not nice human beings, etc. and they tend to prosper for some odd reason.
Now I know the short answer to this, which would be that we live in a sinful world, however it does seem upside down though.
_____________________________
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/15/2008 4:18:17 PM
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campbe33
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The Bible iterates bad(sinful) people will acquire riches and many good things will happen to them, making it seem like things are greener on the other side of the street. Remember this is an illusion, in actuality if you look beyond all the good things they recieve they're poor wretched souls. All these good things happening to them is Satan's ploy to get us to cross over to the other side. They have laid up treasures for themselves on earth, while we will have laid up treasures for ourselves in heaven. All that they have in the end will be worthless as dust and it will not save them from damnation.
_____________________________
"Let your conversation be gracious and seasoned with salt so you will have the right response for everyone"
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/16/2008 3:09:25 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 206
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
First of all... I don't like it when people bait others... and with that said, I'll answer you. Again, my deepest apologies for your feeling this way. I have never "baited" anyone in my life. That is like saying I am setting snares in hopes of trapping someone to hurt them.  I have never been so cruelly accused. I do realize that there are people who do that though & I will apologize for them because I am sure feeling the punishment for something I have not done.
I thought it was just a discussion about a serious subject.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
I don't judge anything or anyone... I simply observe... just as you and every other breathing person in the world does... Yes, we all observe, but I try not to decide who is good & who is bad, because we are all fallible & I can not prioritize sin. Yes, we observe what we feel are injustices, but the the question was, "Why do good things happen to bad people? That is a very descriptive sentence. It clearly states that something is good and someone is bad. I know how you feel though. It's frustrating to witness those things & THAT is precisely one of the the things that I find mediocre about us. Our "rationalization", our "understanding" of this life. It is ours, not God's.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
..............someone who has had their children taken away from them because of their inability to function with out a needle in their arm is justified in taking from a company that her father just happened to work for and then died because of his habits... Yes, this is atrocious, but how is it different from the parent who takes their child to the emergency room & the doctor makes a ghastly mistake that causes the child to die? What about the 2 teenage boys that died in a car crash on their way to school today? We all know that death is inevitable. We allowed evil into this world (aren't we equally as responsible as Adam & Eve?) & that opened the door to our death here. Unfortunately because we allowed evil in, sometimes evil ways cause our death, but clearly God has a plan for all, including those who are victimized & Jesus is The Way. It is simply trusting Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
If you and others want to consider yourself mediocore.... again, that is your business. God made me in HIS image... and HE is not mediocore. Yes, we were all created in His image, but we are not Him. I strive to love as perfectly as Him, but I also know that I am mediocre by comparison. Each day I allow Him to work within me, I become less & less mediocre. I'm feeling really mediocre today because I have been accused of baiting people & that really hurts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
Sorry, you are wrong. Even Jesus said that HE wasn't even good... that it is His Father that is the only one who is good. I sometimes forget that there are people who do not believe in the Trinity. I often refer to God as Jesus & Jesus as God & God as The Holy Spirit & The Holy Spirit as....well, you know what I mean.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
If we choose to stay in our sin... then we are not good. But Jesus came that we should live.... and not live a "bad" life.
Yes, I hope that all believers strive to live a good life & mirror God's good ways, but I think to truly be good, one has to be completely & wholly with God & I just don't think that is completely & wholly possible this side of heaven.
I believe that to be "partially" good (a better definition of mediocre) & continually striving does not mean that we are bad or not in God's image, just that we are doing as He instructs us.
Peace.
Edited because I wanted to add what a precious picture that you have as your avatar.
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/16/2008 3:55:08 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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Ok... I don't want to go around in circles again with someone else. If you re-read your post... with the shoe on the other foot... you will see why I didn't want to even respond to your post to begin with.
Second... re-read your second post... all the way at the bottom... after deeply apologizing... you'll see how you still wanted an answer and someone to agree with you. So... I answered you. I felt you were baiting... that's just my observation. Sorry if I'm wrong... but YOU were not CRUELY ACCUSED.... or punished.
I simply stated that I do not like being baited.
quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
"Why do good things happen to bad people? That is a very descriptive sentence. It clearly states that something is good and someone is bad. I know how you feel though. It's frustrating to witness those things & THAT is precisely one of the the things that I find mediocre about us. Our "rationalization", our "understanding" of this life. It is ours, not God's.
It was just a "twist" on an age old saying... a "cleaver title" if you will. I could have said, "Why do drug addicts get all the breaks?" or "Why does the government get to keep half of our wages?"
quote:
I sometimes forget that there are people who do not believe in the Trinity. I often refer to God as Jesus & Jesus as God & God as The Holy Spirit & The Holy Spirit as....well, you know what I mean.
This is exactly the kind of statement I'm refering to. No-one said they didn't believe in the Trinity... so this is just some folks way to get more discussion, attention, whatever. Sorry if that hurts... but we need to be careful of what we say and how we say it.
quote:
Edited because I wanted to add what a precious picture that you have as your avatar.
Thank you very much. That is my granddaughter, Shelby.
God's blessings to you!
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Why Do Good Things Happen To Bad People??? - 10/16/2008 4:32:50 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 206
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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You are right.
I need to take more time & be more careful & I will try to do so.
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I guess I could have said that a little gentler, huh?
