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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/13/2008 7:53:03 PM
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Aisha
Posts: 74
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Maryland
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This woman is being a little too persistent and I really feel like stepping in but I dont know if that is appropriate. I dont know whats so hard for her to understand. Below is a copy and pasted version of there convo.
THE FEMALE
September 22 at 10:56pm
you're right. but ilia heard nothing about either, and was just as shocked as victor and me. either way, you're right. we need to stay in contact more often (outside of facebook). so, that includes me calling you and/or you calling me more often. no hard feelings on this end. we're going to mia next week. it's late notice, but do you want to come with?
MY FIANCE
September 27 at 2:05pm
I'm engaged, I don't think going on a trip with two other women would appropriate. Y'all have fun though. I I need to focus on my relationship right now so I won't be in contact.
THE FEMALE
October 12 at 9:29pm
Phil, are you serious?!? We are friends and nothing more. So, you think talking and hanging out with friends is inappropriate. Come on now! This is crazy. You shouldn't have to cut your friends off in order to have a relationship. Yes, you are engage. But that does not mean that you can't have friends; friends that you have had for like 9 almost 10 years!!!! Are you serious?!?!?! I really hope I am mistaken and have misread your message. Anyway, I have an extra homecoming game ticket. Victor is coming in town and we all plan to go to the game (this is our 5 year anniversary)!!! Let me know if you can hang out with (long time) friends.
This woman continues to invite him places with a gay guy and another single woman. He clearly told her how he felt and that he wont be in contact with her and she just wont give up. Now she thinks its okay to invite only him with those same people to a college homecoming game. Not ONCE did she invite me and its clear she dont want me to be around. We agreed on us having mutual friends that will respect our relationship and that can be friends with the other person. We also agreed to not hang out with friends of the opposite sex. I dont know why this woman cant get the picture and wont respect his wishes.
My fiance and I have been doing much better overall and the last thing I need is some woman begging to have her single friend back. Marriage will definitely change the both of us for the better and there are certain people that we cant hang around because of the things they like to do and want us to be included in.
Im not sure if he should block her, if I should say something, or if he should tell her the same thing all over again but this really irritates me. It seems like everytime we are moving forward there is someone that creeps up and causes problems.
_____________________________
Engaged to my bestfriend Sept. 5, 2008!
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 8:19:10 AM
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willfs
Posts: 316
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Well there are probably plenty of verses that deal with this from a general level but nothing that i have ever heard of that says, "If thou be engaged then thou shalt limit the number of opposite sex friends to your mom and sister."
Romans 12:18
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Is there ever going to be peace in your relationship with him being so close to his female friends? I heard someone say that you look for someone who is compatible with you but when you meet them and as the relationship develops you have to learn a lot of compatibility. Are both of you seeking to build the compatibility? What is more important: your feelings on this matter or the friendships with these other woman? You are right in saying you will have to submit to your husband but that doesn't always mean that his jugdment will be right. He will need to listen to you quite a bit as well. I would think its more like the woman submitting to the Christlike authority of a husband who is willing to give up everything, even his life; and not someone who submits to some guy's every wish. Are you seeing Christlike rule from him?
I had a close friend who I called every week, several times a week. She got married. I consider her relationship to her husband as much more important than mine with her. I don't call her anymore.
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 10:13:10 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2861
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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You've asked for scriptural advice. Here is mine.
FOR YOUR FIANCE: Proverbs 5, the whole chapter. Highlighting the following verses:
8 Keep to a path far from her, do not go near the door of her house,
18 May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 A loving doe, a graceful deer— may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?
James 1
5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does. ...
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
FOR YOU:
Proverbs 2:11 Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you. 12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse, 13 who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways, 14 who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil, 15 whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their ways.
quote:
My discernment of people is often pretty accurate. I dont just do this in my own relationship. I can see snakes in other peoples lives and it bothers me. Women can break up homes just as well as men can. Men arent the only dogs!
It sounds to me like your discernment of people is pretty accurate. Don't ignore the discernment you have about your fiance. You don't trust him because he is untrustworthy. Heed "Wisdom". She is speaking to you. (Proverbs 1) Do not marry this man. You already stated the very reason you should not marry him. You stated it in your very first post:
quote:
I dont want to be married to a man with female friends.
quote:
One thing I can say is that we have been committed to each other and have been committed to working thru issues that arise. It may take awhile but we stick in there and try to get it right. So hopefully, he will take head to what advice we are given in counseling. If not, then I will have to leave. Christian counseling is our last step that we agreed on.
Pre-marital counseling is not designed to fix a relationship. It is to prepare a healthy relationship for marriage or expose an unhealthy relationship. Your relationship is already obviously unhealthy. You know that or you wouldn't be hoping that counseling would fix it.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 10:44:56 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2861
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
We built our relationship thru sin and it has been a VERY rocky road getting away from it and REALLY seeing who each other are.
This is exactly why you are having problems ending a relationship with an untrustworthy man. Don't fall into the trap of trying to fix the sin by fixing the relationship. Just repent of the sin (which I assume you already have done) and then judge the relationship based on truth and not on a desire for it to be something that it is not. You want to start out with a healthy marriage not a fixer-upper. If your fiance can't/won't lay the foundation stone of "forsaking all others" and doesn't even comprehend the need for that stone beyond just making you happy don't marry him.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 12:34:34 PM
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Aisha
Posts: 74
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
Well there are probably plenty of verses that deal with this from a general level but nothing that i have ever heard of that says, "If thou be engaged then thou shalt limit the number of opposite sex friends to your mom and sister."
Romans 12:18
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Is there ever going to be peace in your relationship with him being so close to his female friends? I heard someone say that you look for someone who is compatible with you but when you meet them and as the relationship develops you have to learn a lot of compatibility. Are both of you seeking to build the compatibility? What is more important: your feelings on this matter or the friendships with these other woman? You are right in saying you will have to submit to your husband but that doesn't always mean that his jugdment will be right. He will need to listen to you quite a bit as well. I would think its more like the woman submitting to the Christlike authority of a husband who is willing to give up everything, even his life; and not someone who submits to some guy's every wish. Are you seeing Christlike rule from him?
I had a close friend who I called every week, several times a week. She got married. I consider her relationship to her husband as much more important than mine with her. I don't call her anymore.
I am not asking that he only makes friends with family. He works for a huge company and has female friends there that are on his team BUT they are not hanging out with him outside of work or even calling him to see what he is doing on the weekend. I would have a problem with that. We agreed to be able to have friends of the opposite sex that the other person feel comfortable with. There is no hanging out with friends of the opposite sex alone and we will hang out together with friends.
It is fine to live at peace with everyone but that doesnt mean that people outside of the marriage should be at peace before the spouse. We will be married before the year is out and we both want to have a clear understanding of the boundaries we will set and they are to take affect now and not after we say "I Do".
We are both developing ourselves everyday. We arent in counseling trying to fix one another. Although thats what we thought when we entered. We are there to fix ourselves to be more Christlike as individuals first. We wont leave counseling until the Pastor says we are done. We have been in since June. We still have ways to go.
My fiance isnt in contact with almost anyone. We dont sit and talk to friends of the opposite sex as much as we used to. We will talk to them every once in awhile to see how they are doing..etc. We dont sit and mingle. We are building a foundation for our family and a lot of friends arent as interested in this walk. Even friends of the same sex. Not to say we cannot be friends with them but why be so close that we start messing up in our walk.
_____________________________
Engaged to my bestfriend Sept. 5, 2008!
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 12:49:33 PM
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Aisha
Posts: 74
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
We built our relationship thru sin and it has been a VERY rocky road getting away from it and REALLY seeing who each other are.
This is exactly why you are having problems ending a relationship with an untrustworthy man. Don't fall into the trap of trying to fix the sin by fixing the relationship. Just repent of the sin (which I assume you already have done) and then judge the relationship based on truth and not on a desire for it to be something that it is not. You want to start out with a healthy marriage not a fixer-upper. If your fiance can't/won't lay the foundation stone of "forsaking all others" and doesn't even comprehend the need for that stone beyond just making you happy don't marry him.
Thanx for your advice Laura.
Our Pastor is not going to brush us off because our relationship was very unhealthy. We are aware how we built the relationship but WE are determined to get on the right track and marry each other AFTER we get there in our lives. The information that we receive in counseling helps to better us as individuals as well as prepare us for marriage. I knew a little more about marrige than my fiance. He is learning a lot and so am I.
My fiance is no longer fighting me to have friends. We have discussed this in counseling as well as together. I didnt post that conversation to show what my fiance did wrong. I was venting about the female who clearly dont get it. This makes me upset and where I am from, to mess with a marriage person is almost normal. I dont want this for my marriage but I cannot be mad at my fiance for her sending messages unless he just allow her to without saying something or simply blocking her. I know that our Pastor cannot fix our relationship but he can give us the necessary tools to fix ourself and then we can work on us.
I will not run off today to marry him. I can see clearly how that wont be a good thing to do but I am not going to give up on it either. We are growing and I am seeing progress. We have always known we wanted to be with each other. Maybe a little fear and other things may have been present but in counseling we are dealing with every area and every once in awhile he asks us if we are sure we want to continue. My fiance has always agreed to go forward, yet, I may not have. During those times when I didnt want to continue, I wanted the Pastor to fix him instead of me working on myself. My fiance wanted him to fix me. Once we got the assignment about the 3 scriptures we thought we had to find 3 scriptures to fix the other person. We clearly had it all wrong. We had to find 3 scriptures that would help solve the problem for us. What we could do while we had an issue with our partner who isnt perfect. We look at everything as if we are married in counseling. Knowing that we arent married and STILL have the option to leave. Our Pastor always ask us if we are sure we can be married to the other person knowing that they have such and such issues and that God doesnt like divorce.
As for trust, I am learning how to trust him all over again. I may not trust him in every area of life but trust can be built and that is what we are doing. The Pastor knows of our issues. We have told him everything and he has a lot of work to do.
I dont know what counseling has done for anyone else but for us, it does well. We are learning and growing in Christ and learning how to REALLY love one another as God wants us to. We are challeneged to listen while in Church on Sundays and take notes so we can discuss how that word pertains to us in our life. The Pastors has been very patient with us because he see our commitment to one another.
_____________________________
Engaged to my bestfriend Sept. 5, 2008!
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RE: Any Scripture Support This? - 10/14/2008 7:59:12 PM
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willfs
Posts: 316
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Aisha
I am not asking that he only makes friends with family.
Yeah, I was only joking... sorry that wasn't more clear.
Also, I wasn't trying to say that you should try to make peace with those outside the marriage... well you should as best you can but I don't think you can in this situation. I was refering more to peace within your relationship with your fiancee. You didn't seem to have a lot of peace in this situation.
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