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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/13/2008 2:16:46 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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ROMANS 13: 1-2 " Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so, will bring judgement upon themselves."
Apparently, Chrisitians are not a law unto themselves. 
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/14/2008 11:24:26 AM
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ffbruce
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Buckifn has been hitting the issue square on here. This really is a black & white issue.
Nobody can go back and change the past. What's done is done. But let's learn a few things from this:
1. What this youth leader and girl were doing was wrong and inappropriate. Period! An adult youth minister/sponsor/leader does NOT, under ANY circumstances, have a teenage girl from the youth group sitting on his lap, cuddling, etc. I don't care what all the reasons and excuses are, this is NOT something that should EVER be done. This is not a "red flag", but a firetruck with it's lights and sirens on!
2. The leaders of the church, if and when they learned anything about this, needed to lovingly and firmly confront this youth leader. For his own protection, for the protection of the young lady, for the protection of the youth group, for the protection of the church, and for the sake of his marriage, this behavior needed to be confronted and stopped. The fact that he is now getting a divorce is not a surprise at all. In fact, early on in reading the OP, I knew that was going to happen. It shouldn't have gotten that far, but good grief, it WAS going to happen!
I have led multiple-staff ministries, and led youth camps, etc., for many years. I also have grown sons, and a daughter who is in high school. As you can tell, I am absolutely adamant in the black & white nature of this issue. It should have been dealt with long ago. Unfortunately, it was not. It NOW has to be dealt with in an absolute manner - as best as can be done.
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/14/2008 2:55:29 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Hey there ffbruce......that is not even the issue any longer. We all beleave that. Buckifn was the least contributor here.
The new issue is a poster thinking that Christians should be a law unto themselves. NEVER involve the authorities. That's the reason this thread is still running.....the other issue is pretty much o v e r.
Thanks! Like to know what you think of the above? You can read what I think of it.
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/14/2008 3:39:09 PM
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ffbruce
Posts: 271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Hey there ffbruce......that is not even the issue any longer. We all beleave that. Buckifn was the least contributor here.
The new issue is a poster thinking that Christians should be a law unto themselves. NEVER involve the authorities. That's the reason this thread is still running.....the other issue is pretty much o v e r.
Thanks! Like to know what you think of the above? You can read what I think of it.
Ehh Hemm... You'll have to pardon my previous rant. I guess I'm just flabbergasted that the situation wasn't dealt with LONG before it got so badly out of hand. There is NO excuse for what this youth leader/girl were and are doing. None.
Regarding Romans 13, and whether or not Christians are part of any earthly kingdom, I think that's pretty simple. We ARE a part of whatever "kingdom" or "country" we're living in. And Paul makes it pretty clear, in Romans 13, that we are not to live like we are above the law. I cannot drive 30 mph over the speed limit just because I'm a Christian, and Jesus said, "my Kingdom is not of this world."
Regarding 1st Corinthians 6, most biblical scholars believe that Paul was here referring to civil matters, not criminal matters. The Corinthians Christians were being stupid and petty, and Paul made it clear that it needed to stop.
Either way, there is a point at which this mis-conduct between the youth minister and child could end up in the court system - and the church would no longer have any control over that. Furthermore, though it is a fuzzy line, those of us in "professional" ministry are, by law, mandatory reporters.
On a personal level, I had a teenage girl talk to me many years ago, claiming that her grandfather was molesting her and forcing sex on her. When I told her that I would do anything possible to help her, but that I was also a mandatory reporter, she immediately changed her story. For years I wrestled with whether or not I made the right decision! Then, about 5 years ago, she made the mistake of (as a young adult) saying the same thing to a friend who was also a social worker. This "friend" immediately went to town with it, and all kinds of stories ended up in the newspapers. It was a horrible situation, but when all the dust settled, it was very clear that this girl was horribly exaggerating things in order to get attention. She admitted that all her grandfather had done was hug her, kiss her on the cheek and - when she was a little girl - give her a little pat on the bum. Hardly molestation... I've since had a great deal more peace about my decision.
This whole situation, between the youth minister and girl, could have exploded into a horrible legal nightmare for the church. It probably still could.
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/14/2008 4:25:12 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
Ehh Hemm... You'll have to pardon my previous rant. I guess I'm just flabbergasted that the situation wasn't dealt with LONG before it got so badly out of hand. There is NO excuse for what this youth leader/girl were and are doing. None.
Pretty much and I think most people were flabbersurprised too! Anyway, I posted the same with regards to your Scripture...
Interesting about your own experience.....in fact, your desire to go about things through proper channels, exposed the lie.
quote:
This whole situation, between the youth minister and girl, could have exploded into a horrible legal nightmare for the church. It probably still could.
Well, exp. these days, guess it could. But given the low to non-existent priority given to the mess in the first place, doubt it. Thanks for responding!
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/30/2008 8:20:06 AM
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Charis2u
Posts: 106
Joined: 6/9/2005
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Sorry to jump in to this so late into the discussion, but the Pastor should be brought into this situation right away.
I have been working in youth ministry for over 10 years, and the last 3 as the youth pastor of my church. I take my call very seriously, and so does my wife who we have been married the last ten years. In that time I have set certain boundaries with the teen girls in my group because it is the right thing to do. One thing is that if I meet with them, I have my wife, sister, or another female leader present. Another thing is the touchy feely thing, I hug the girls, but it is a one armed type of hug. That type has been under attack by some in the field, but it shows that hey I care, but I have to have a wall up. If things are this obvious with this guy, it sounds like an emotional affair is going on, and this can ruin a marriage. I have seen this with my in laws. I would go to the senior pastor ASAP, and let him know about this, and even have him look at the myspace and facebook pages.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you...for a hope and a future." Jer 29:11
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." (an entry in Jim Elliot's journal)
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RE: Scandal? dunno what to think.. - 10/30/2008 11:52:03 AM
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RamiRedeemed
Posts: 1585
Joined: 10/13/2008
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A question for the original question asker... you said that this youth pastor was a good friend of yours. I'm curious of you or your husband talked to him besides to tell him to make boundaries? Did you tell him what his behavior looks like to everyone else? Did you ask him blatantly what was going on with the young woman? Has anyone talked to this mans wife about what her feelings are? I could assume that if you're a good friend of his then you're probably a good friend of his wife as well.
I'd say the young lady is confused about the attention she gets from him. Or maybe she's just a bit friendly? Maybe she doesn't get a lot of love at home or perhaps she just feels comfortable talkin to him about problems in her life. Being that she's so young it's possible that she doesn't have feelings for him but that she hasn't yet figured out how to draw the lines between what is acceptable in a friendship with a married man.
I don't find it odd that she hugs him. Or that she drove so many hours to go to the youth event. I left my vacation early a few months ago and drove 9 hours straight, 7 months pregnant, just to get to church on sunday morning. Some people just really enjoy being at church.
As for him though, he could very possibly be having feelings for the young lady. If she doesn't know how to draw the line and he is going through his own issues he might take her affection and attention as an advance. Wrong, but very possible. He shouldve never allowed her to sit on his lap, that's just odd, but again, he might be lonely since there's problems at home and be a bit too accepting of what seems like her desire for him.
The pictures and such on the myspace page don't seem that odd to me. She is the one who posted the photo of her sitting on him? She doesn't think she's doing anything wrong or she wouldn't have posted it. If he had posted it it would be a different story. Her intentions with him seem innocent to me. If she's had a rough childhood she probably just wants the attention of a man, even a father figure.
It might not be 7 shades of naughty as some might think.
_____________________________
Some people talk because they have something to say.
Others talk because they have to say something.
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ramireconciled.blogspot.com
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