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US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 8:57:45 AM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
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It’s on a lot of treads here.
“Europe is a toilet. Denmark is a cesspool. Europe is fallen and will disappear. People flee the socialist hellhole. Denmark is populated with old, sad people who are committing suicide while teens drink and have homo-sex.” 
So – after listening to this for a while, I have decided to go digging for numbers. The point of this tread is a source of reference for other treads. Whenever someone says: “Denmark is the suicide capital of the world.” I can refer to this tread.
When possible I will compare the US to Denmark. If I cant find a direct comparison I will use Sweden or other European nations in Denmarks place.
Please – this is not a tread to hurl insults or just claim stuff out of the blue. Corrections are welcome, but with sources. Bloggers are not sources.
So – US vs Denmark on moral issues.
Lets start with the big one. Are Denmark filled with sad people wishing they were Americans?
Happines:
Denmark most happy nation
Denmark nr. 1, US nr. 16
I’ll call that one for Denmark
Homosexuality:
Homosexuality
quote:
Denmark
1992: A random survey found that 2.7% of the 1,373 men who responded to their questionnaire had homosexual experience (intercourse).
United States
1990: "Homosexuality/Heterosexuality: Concepts of Sexual Orientation" published findings of 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females having had either "extensive" or "more than incidental" homosexual experience.
Denmark 2/0 US
Suicide:
Suicide_wikipedia
quote:
Suicide numbers are not alarming. We're number 27, while the US is number 43. France is 18.
It’s not alarming, but we have more than the US.
Denmark 2/1 US
Teen Pregnancy:
Teen_Prengnancy_wikipedia
quote:
The US has 53 teenage pregnancies pr. 1000 women aged 15-19.
UK has 20.
Denmark has 12.
Denmark 3/1 US
Racism:
Racism
quote:
Using analysis of variance, results indicated that white subjects, whether Danish or American, generally hold negative attitudes toward culturally relevant minority groups, but Danes did not feel quite as negative toward mediterraneans as Americans did towards blacks. However, Danes were very positive toward blacks (a non-culturally relevant minority). The results support the generalizing of the concept of the culturally relevant minority group.
A small score – but a score.
Denmark 4/1 US
Alcoholism:
Alcohol
Danish youth drink more that US youth.
Denmark 4/2 US
Marriage (this one is interesting):
Marriage
quote:
Percent of all children born out of wedlock:
Sweden 46.4%
Denmark 41.9
United States 21.5
United Kingdom 19.2
Canada 12.1
Germany 9.4
Netherlands 8.3
Switzerland 5.6
Japan 1.0
Having children out of wedlock, however, does not mean that the father is not living at home and offering support. Here is the actual percentage of families headed by single parents:
United States 8.0%
Germany 6.7
Netherlands 6.7
Canada 5.6
Denmark 5.1
France 5.1
United Kingdom 4.0
Sweden 3.2
Japan 2.5
So, while less couples are married in Denmark and Sweden, there is more actual singleparent families in the US.
I would call it for Denmark, but I’m biased. I’ll settle for even.
Denmark 5/3 US
Crime:
We often hear how strict guncontrol laws makes us a nation of victims. Lets compare crimerates.
Crimerates
quote:
Prisoners (per 1,000 people):
United States 4.2
United Kingdom 1.0
Germany 0.8
Denmark 0.7
Sweden 0.6
Japan 0.4
Netherlands 0.4
Murder rate (per 100,000 people):
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
Germany 4.20
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Finland 0.70
Rape (per 100,000 people):
United States 37.20
Sweden 15.70
Denmark 11.23
Germany 8.60
Norway 7.87
United Kingdom 7.26
Finland 7.20
Japan 1.40
Those numbers are insane.
Denmark 6/3 US
So – Danes drink more, have a bit more suicides and couples are not as often married as the US.
Americans kill and rape much more than Danes, are more often single parents, has more teen pregnancies, engage in more homosexual experiments and are not quite as content as Danes. 
This is not an attack at the US, merely a rejection of the very strange ideas people have about life in Europe/Denmark.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 9:56:09 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 10:11:19 AM
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iampiper13
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/31/2008
From: Maryland
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did you figure in the differences in population?
Denmark 2007 est. 5,500,000
US 2007 est. 301,621,157
not picking on you just asking since there is such a difference.
_____________________________
God Bless
Steve
Psalms 138:3 CEV When I asked for your help, you answered my prayer and gave me courage.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 10:14:14 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
did you figure in the differences in population?
Denmark 2007 est. 5,500,000
US 2007 est. 301,621,157
not picking on you just asking since there is such a difference.
Yes, that is why his crime statistics were X/100,000 people where X is how many of the crime.
quote:
Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
Then why do the Americans keep comparing themselves to European countries or specifically Denmark where Wormheart comes from? ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 11:47:37 AM
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scutus
Posts: 265
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
Other than the one on racism, how does this matter?
_____________________________
Suo enim quisque studio maxime ducitur.
—Cicero, De Finibus, 5.5
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 12:05:55 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2029
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
Other than the one on racism, how does this matter?
Homogenous societies (AFAIK, but I could be wrong) tend to have less crime and internal strife.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 2:02:17 PM
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aslouie
Posts: 710
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
Status: offline
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The way I see this, morally-speaking, is this:
Even with the always potentially hotheaded, trans-Atlantic rivalries between American and contemporary European (especially Scandinavian) values, I think it's rather fascinating to see how the 9-11 age is starting to compel both sides of the Atlantic Ocean to reevaluate each others' cultural divide. Things such as the Prophet Muhammed political cartoons, the late Oriana Fallaci's retorts on Islamicism's threat to Western liberal values (or more specifically, classic liberalism, pre-dating the kind we conservatives oft-complain about), etc... have raised a sort of unlikely form of unity between The States (including the more socially conservative parts of this country) and Europe.
So, with this current phase of Western history, the same two nations/regions that for the most part, like to engage in some nasty trans-national, name-calling (i.e. America as the Bible-thumping, warmonger state, Denmark as the transgendered/transsexual capitol of the world), it seems with the rise of Al Qaeda and company, we seem to find a common threat against our separately respective--yet common ground values (depending of course, how one sees those similarities, like the freedom to practice one's religious preference in peace, as well as the freedom to do what one will in the bedroom... *nudge nudge, wink wink), I'm thinking both countries have a shared/vested interest in not becoming another statistic on some Jihadist website!*
*getting beheaded on camera for propaganda use!
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 2:09:18 PM
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aslouie
Posts: 710
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
Status: offline
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But regarding the gun statistics, I'm wondering if the reason behind the disparities of gun-related violence lies more to do with the basic core values on how one views a firearm, since I recalled in American history (i.e. circa 1920 or so), people have unfettered access to guns of all sorts--YET, still have the common sense decency/civility to not engage in foolish activity in which this sort of personal arsenal could/will/can be utilized to horrific effect; in short, having a gun--even possibly/theoretically a fully-automatic, military kind--can be better served as a psychological deterrent, kind of like a cheaper, scaled-down version of an H-bomb... unless of course, your name is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad! 
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 2:12:29 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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Sorry, in advance, for this post sounding so angry.
I am sick and tired of people comparing the United States to either Europe as a whole, or to a specific country in Europe.
I am also sick and tired of people saying that the United States needs to be more like Europe.
There is really no comparison.
The founders of this country, rergardless of race, creed, ethnicity, nationality all CAME to this country for a reason. (Sorry, but I am not going to get al wrapped up in the matter of slavery and racism since Europe and the United States have both been guilty of the matter). Most of them were escaping Europe for one reason or another. As a result, this country's history and societal make up took a far different course than Europe has, and the whole world has been able to benefit form it, especially each and every European country.
Each and every Europen country is many more times smaller than the United States.
The United States is at least a century ahead of Euruope as far as the idea of being united as a world power and a people is concerned.
The miracle of our world wide military network allows Europe to largely concern themselves with their domestic issues, and national security needs. We, and the umbrella organizations we have founded allow Europe to spend far less on defense than we do. (I say miracle, because from what I understand our economy was never been designed to suppoprt the kind of military force we have been called upon to support throughout much of our history).
The bottom line is we Americans learned from Europe on how not to govern ourselves, and how best to give everyone a voice in the government. Not to mention that we either simply chose a different path than Europe has, or that the course of our history has always meant to be different from Europe's. Regardless, it doesn't make one any more right or better than the other no matter how you try to compare the two.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 6:09:58 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 392
Joined: 5/12/2005
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That's a little defensive, leon. All WormHeart was doing was debunking some of the more distorted (and silly) views of what it's like in Europe that are routinely expressed in this forum.
I have live many years on both sides of the Atlantic, and the reality is that both Europe and America has much to learn from each other. The European community, taken as a whole, is now comparable in size and population to the USA, and is probably now much less homogeneous than the US -- southern Europe, northern Europe, and eastern Europe are very different cultures -- and language is a very big divide. There are some things that Europeans do better than Americans -- lower cost of healthcare, the huge disparity in crime rates -- but then there are things that Americans do better too -- like freedom of speech issues.
There are things I really like about living in America, but then there are things I miss about living in the UK.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/1/2008 9:46:20 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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Yes, my post is a little defensove. Wormhert is not the first person I have had to deal with that felt that Europe either collectively, or individually is far superior to the United States in any of a number of ways. They totally ignore the fact that the United States did not come into existance like most, if not all, of the countries of Europe. As a result our society and the course of our history has always been on a separate track than Europe.
I too have lived on both sides of the Atlantic, thanks to the military-total of 9 years in Germany. I am well aware that Europe, as a result of its experiences, has somethings that we could learn from-a diverse political openeess, diverse and informitive news media, mass transportation network, a welfare system that weeds out and punishes abusers of the sytem and a more than adequate law enforcement/ national security network
I get a bit touchy when people say that Europe is better than the United States while totally ignoring the clear and important differences between us, and our histories.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/2/2008 4:12:44 AM
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47.samuel
Posts: 50
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Sorry, in advance, for this post sounding so angry.
I am sick and tired of people comparing the United States to either Europe as a whole, or to a specific country in Europe.
I am also sick and tired of people saying that the United States needs to be more like Europe.
There is really no comparison.
The founders of this country, regardless of race, creed, ethnicity, nationality all CAME to this country for a reason. (Sorry, but I am not going to get al wrapped up in the matter of slavery and racism since Europe and the United States have both been guilty of the matter). Most of them were escaping Europe for one reason or another. As a result, this country's history and societal make up took a far different course than Europe has, and the whole world has been able to benefit form it, especially each and every European country.
Each and every Europen country is many more times smaller than the United States.
The United States is at least a century ahead of Euruope as far as the idea of being united as a world power and a people is concerned.
The miracle of our world wide military network allows Europe to largely concern themselves with their domestic issues, and national security needs. We, and the umbrella organizations we have founded allow Europe to spend far less on defense than we do. (I say miracle, because from what I understand our economy was never been designed to suppoprt the kind of military force we have been called upon to support throughout much of our history).
The bottom line is we Americans learned from Europe on how not to govern ourselves, and how best to give everyone a voice in the government. Not to mention that we either simply chose a different path than Europe has, or that the course of our history has always meant to be different from Europe's. Regardless, it doesn't make one any more right or better than the other no matter how you try to compare the two.
*************************************************************
quote:
CIA Worldbook - Rank Order - Life expectancy at birth -2008 est.
Rank - Country - Life expectancy at birth(years)
****************************
1 Macau 84.33
2 Andorra 82.67
3 Japan 82.07
4 Singapore 81.89
5 San Marino 81.88
6 Hong Kong 81.77
7 Australia 81.53
8 Canada 81.16
9 France 80.87
10 Sweden 80.74
11 Switzerland 80.74
12 Guernsey 80.65
13 Israel 80.61
14 Iceland 80.55
15 Anguilla 80.53
16 Cayman Islands 80.32
17 New Zealand 80.24
18 Italy 80.07
19 Gibraltar 80.06
20 Monaco 79.96
21 Liechtenstein 79.95
22 Spain 79.92
23 Norway 79.81
24 Jersey 79.65
25 Greece 79.52
27 Malta 79.30
28 Faroe Islands 79.29
29 Netherlands 79.25
30 Luxembourg 79.18
31 Germany 79.10
32 Belgium 79.07
33 Guam 78.93
34 Virgin Islands
35 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 78.91
36 United Kingdom 78.85
37 Finland 78.82
38 Isle of Man 78.80
39 Jordan 78.71
40 Korea, South 78.64
41 Puerto Rico 78.58
42 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.33
43 Bermuda 78.30
44 Saint Helena 78.27
45 Cyprus 78.15
46 United States 78.14
47 Denmark 78.13
48 Ireland 78.07
49 Portugal 78.04
50 Albania 77.78
51 Taiwan 77.76
52 Kuwait 77.53
53 Costa Rica 77.40
54 European Union 77.32
55 Cuba 77.27
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
Perhaps "leonfigg3" is unaware that this is an age of multinationals and globialization, where America is forced to learn and compete with the rest of world - including Europe.
Lifespan is only one indicator, but it is an important measure concerning the prosperity, nutrition, standard of living and the general health of a nation.
Why does the US have a shorter life expectancy than most major European nations (Germany, France, UK, Ialy, Spain, Greece, Netherlands, etc.)?
What are the reasons that the lifespan of the average American is 3.02 years less than his/her Canadian counterpart?
Why does the average life expectancy in the US rank 46th in the world - a mere 0.36 years ahead of Albania and 0.87 years ahead of Cuba?
quote:
I get a bit touchy when people say that Europe is better than the United States while totally ignoring the clear and important differences between us, and our histories.
Based on the comparisons provided from the CIA:Worldbook, much of Europe and other modern nations are "better than the United States" in terms of life expectancy and other areas - what are these clear and important differences that justify it?
< Message edited by 47.samuel -- 11/2/2008 4:27:21 AM >
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/2/2008 5:19:19 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
But even if that is a legitimate reason for the difference – why would people claim Denmark or Europe is worse off, if the US is damaged by their different ethnic backgrounds?
quote:
ORIGINAL: iampiper13
did you figure in the differences in population?
Yep – otherwise it would be a worthless comparison :)
quote:
ORIGINAL: aslouie
we seem to find a common threat against our separately respective--yet common ground values (depending of course, how one sees those similarities, like the freedom to practice one's religious preference in peace, as well as the freedom to do what one will in the bedroom... *nudge nudge, wink wink), I'm thinking both countries have a shared/vested interest in not becoming another statistic on some Jihadist website!*
*getting beheaded on camera for propaganda use!
Yeah, I think the clashes are more like quarrelling siblings, than actually animosity.
We have much more on common with each other than with most other nations out there.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/2/2008 5:43:57 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Sorry, in advance, for this post sounding so angry.
I am sick and tired of people comparing the United States to either Europe as a whole, or to a specific country in Europe.
I am also sick and tired of people saying that the United States needs to be more like Europe.
Well, Leonfigg, I’m not really saying either.
As I said, it is not a slam against the US, but a reaction to the statements that keep popping up – also in treads where we both debated.
Stuff like this:
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
With all due respect to you beloved Denmark, most of Europe is a toilet. The decline of Europe into the apathetic and immoral thing that it is is exactly I want the USA to avoid.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The aritclcle said;
quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Denmark, with its democracy, social equality and peaceful atmosphere, is the happiest country in the world, researchers said on Monday.
or it could be the legal drugs, prostitution, no drinking age, being the pedophile and child porn capital of the world etc. etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 19ramman85
Isn't Denmark also the Country w/ the highest homosexuality rate?
-charles
I think it serves a real purpose. Apparently a lot of people know very little about the moral states of Europe/Denmark compared with the US.
People are free to dislike Denmark and Europe, but to claim we are the pedophile capital of the world and have the highest homosexuality rate?
Education, education, education :-p
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/3/2008 10:25:29 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
This is not an attack at the US, merely a rejection of the very strange ideas people have about life in Europe/Denmark.
WormHeart
Yes, people are ignorant indeed, including myself...of course. 
I do tend to compare US with other rich 1st world nations, as Groups of 8 or 10 and etc, most of them are in Europe. Even US do compare itself with other nations standards as education, standards of life etc. This world is a very competitive one and the ones on the top do not want to lose their positions, as their populations are used and proud to their own ways of life, institutions etc etc. Cultures are different and unique, their many histories rich and colorful and older nations did bring to their table their influences in different portions, depending on the time in history etc
The ones who did colonize many in the past and went around crossing seas etc did influence more peoples and etc
I do like the European "quilt" as many smaller nations share borders and belong near one another...the Old World is a very charming world. As the New World of the Americas make up are very much different..we have US and Canada on top and most other nations from Spanish colonizers origin, few French, single by Portugueses and many many Amerindians Natives..we do still have our original population of Natives Peoples before the Colonizers came here...
That is so interesting that for older nations 200 years is "nothing" as history goes and lands demarcation etcs..but to Americas histories, not so... USA is an young, remarkable new Empire.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Bad comparison when you realize we have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds here.. not just one primary one.
quote:
This is not an attack at the US, merely a rejection of the very strange ideas people have about life in Europe/Denmark.
WormHeart
What do you mean by that? Is that Denamark is mostly white or USA is 1/2 white?
It does sound a racist remark...lets see, the majority doing a bad job and drained down US may be the minorities...
Reggarding moral issues as the Tittle says, the world lacks moral. Some places are still more conservative than others..for exemple..Holland..Amsterdan is known to be very liberal in many fronts but the other cities in Holland not so at all.
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RE: US vs Denmark on moral issues - 11/3/2008 11:13:30 AM
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demolay
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Yes, people are ignorant indeed
"Everybody is ignorant, just about different things" - Roy Rogers
I hate statistics, because people can always find a statistic to say pretty much anything they want to say. Because of this, statistics are very often a form of attempted deception. Worse, our age has become polling and statistic crazy, with the seeming objective that "the numbers" can define what is RIGHT and WRONG. But this is a Christian forum. So for us, presumably, RIGHT and WRONG are defined by what God has said, not by us.
From a Christian worldview, if Denmark has largely abandoned its Christian heritage, then it is indeed "in the toilet". Soley because that is how God sees it.
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