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The 1000 year reign of Christ - 10/31/2008 5:21:49 PM
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Dan94
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I was listening to a radio call-in show on the Family Life Network here in upstate New York. A caller called in about a passage in the bible that indicated there would be animal sacrifices during the 1000 year reign of Christ. I did not catch what passage the caller was using, but the board of Christian leaders that all calls are directed to seemed to have inconclusive views on the subject. Does anyone know the passage of which the caller was talking about? And does anyone have any insight as to why there would need to be such sacrifices?
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 10/31/2008 5:46:01 PM
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SonicStudent
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I don't know off hand which scritures they were refering, but think it's Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the rebuilding of the 3rd temple and the sacrifice of the red heffer.
I must admit I struggle with this my self, as it seems to be standard Christian eschatological belief that sacrifices will continue when the 3rd temple is re-built and some believe during the millenium too.
I'm just not nearly clever enough to say yes or no to this. But I was led to believe that Christ's death on the cross meant an end for the need for sacrifices ever again. As our Lord said - It is finished, and the moment this was said and He gave up the ghost, God rent the temple curtain from top to bottom, indicating clearly that sacrifices were no longer needed. As He said before Christ. 'Sacrifices and burnt offerings He did not want, but a body He has prepared for Himself'. So, it seems a little strange to then go back to animal sacrifices. Are we saying His son wasn't enough? And actually, He's changed His mind and does again want animal sacrifices?
I too would be really interested and want to understand, so someone help?
Good Question by the way!
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 5:21:01 AM
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Dan94
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Maybe it is because those alive at His 2nd coming did not receive Him by faith, but by site. If by site then by law, because the law does not require faith, but action mixed with fear. The Word says He is going to rule with an iron rod. It almost indicates that those left on the earth will not be willing to serve Him, but will be forced...with an iron rod. Does anyone have any opinions or some scripture to help clarify this?
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 11:27:28 AM
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SonicStudent
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I see what you're saying and how your thinking. Maybe that's right, I don't know. Please, anyone who can cast light on this further that would be great.
It seems strange though because as I understand stuff, God wants to undo what happened at the very start with Adam's unbelief which seperated us from God. Adam didn't trust what God had said, so the cure was to believe and trust God and what He says about the only way back to Him, by believing totally in His Son. So faith is what puts us right with God, not works. It seems strange that a relationship based on works would once more be active. Especially when in various places it indicates that they all maybe condemned, because they did not believe the love of the truth that they all might be saved.
Is it at all possible (and I really don't know!) that the prophecies regarding a third literal temple are in someway miss-understood?
Maybe actually were talking about the building of the 2nd temple. Or something, I don't know! It's one of those areas that confuses me greatly. Someone teach us this, but let us know if it's standard Christian teaching on the subject or point of view.
Cheers
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 11:37:13 AM
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bob97
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Sonic...just a couple of questions;
Do you feel in your heart that there will be another temple?
Do you think that it is the desire of the Jewish people to build another temple and do you think they are ready to do so at a moments notice?
Scripture tells us that the Antichrist will set in the temple proclaiming himself to be God (2Th 2:4). Now either this is a future event or it has happened in the past and will not occur again.
Personally I think it has happened in the past and will occur again in the near future...the past is a shadow of the future.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 12:07:05 PM
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SonicStudent
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Hi again Bob,
Many times from reading your replies to other people threads, i've thought to myself, 'this man thinks exactly like myself on so many issues'! LOL
Yes, I feel in my heart there will be another Temple set-up. What I'm not clear on is how exactly this fits in to current revelation we have on God's dealings with man's salvation.
One thing's for sure. Before Christ, no one had a clue that God would bring the messiah as suffering servant, and expected a powerful, militant hero to save the day. We were short sighted.
Maybe there is a future mystery that ties everything up here, that we don't quite see yet.
I know there is a huge desire to build a third temple by many, and not just in Israel, but by many wealthy Jew's across the earth who have sent millions of $'s into the fund. I know they are so certain it will happen that they have prepared a great many Temple items ready for worship and that the area's they are not certain on they are studying. Also that they are training Levites for there roles, and that the stones have been created already.
I think they are only awaiting opertunity. Infact the only thing that's stoped then over the last 20 years is the current liberal government that rather be at peace with their enemies by keeping the status quo.
I think that those that see every prophecy as already fulfilled miss the fact that many times there seems to be lesser shadows of its ultimate fulfilment.
Saying that all was already fulfilled, is to say that God has completed everything, no one has anything to worry about because, all that was to be, now is. Which indicates that there is a state of completion already here and no future judgement.
Sorry, but things are getting worse, satan has increased the grip of hearts and minds, and all they've really seen are warning shadows of the ultimate fulfilment.
Just my view lol.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 4:43:43 PM
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Dan94
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Well if they got all the instruments for temple worship, they must be planning to use them. I heard somewhere they were waiting for a natural disaster (or supernatural) to bring down the Dome of the rock. I think Bob is right, the Anti-Christ is going to sit in the temple and proclaim himself god. So there will have to be another temple built, unless the temple he sits in is the heart of all unbelievers, or something spiritual like that. Remember how Hitler was said to hypnotize the entire German nation?
Does anyone know for sure what scriptures clearly define the call for animal sacrifices to done again?
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 8:47:28 PM
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SonicStudent
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Sorry if i'm totaly wrong, what do I know! But is it just me or is the design for the 3rd temple in the shape of the cross when you put a line through each of the main structures! What do you think?
Here's a reconstruction;
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 9:06:09 PM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan94
Well if they got all the instruments for temple worship, they must be planning to use them. I heard somewhere they were waiting for a natural disaster (or supernatural) to bring down the Dome of the rock. I think Bob is right, the Anti-Christ is going to sit in the temple and proclaim himself god. So there will have to be another temple built, unless the temple he sits in is the heart of all unbelievers, or something spiritual like that. Remember how Hitler was said to hypnotize the entire German nation?
Does anyone know for sure what scriptures clearly define the call for animal sacrifices to done again?
There might be something in that idea of the anti-christ being throned in the heart of unbelievers Dan.
I found this on the same site as the link above. It gives some interesting views and support for the 'spiritual temple' idea. Well sort of anyway!
It says there will be a second temple, built to Ezekiel's design, but it will be built by the returned Messiah. And that there could well be a temple built by unbelieving Jews, but it will not be the fulfilment of the scriptures.
Here's part of the study;
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
There are two different Greek words that are translated as "temple" in English. One word "hieron" is used by Paul when referring to an actual building made with wood and stones. The other word "naos" is used when referring to the spiritual temple of God which refers to His people. The word "naos" is the one used in this 2 Thessalonians 2:4 verse, and therefore is NOT talking about a physical temple.
Doug Fortune, in his article "Antichrist Revealed" writes:
Beginning with the Book of Acts, after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, through the Book of Revelation, the word naos is used ONLY referring to people as the temple not made with hands. When referring to the physical temple building the word hieron is used. Of course, throughout the Book of Revelation, the word naos is used, as that Book is the REVEALING of Jesus Christ, and He is revealed in the MIDST of the Lampstand, the CHURCH (Revelation 1:20). Why then is there so much confusion when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 speaks of the man of sin seated in the NAOS of God, “...which temple (naos) YE ARE...”(1Corinthians 3:17). Why are we looking for a man seated in a building yet to be built in the Middle-East, when we should be looking in the mirror? As the man of sin, the Adam nature is revealed and "the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.” or “the brightness of His coming” (2 Thessalonians 2:8) as some translations read.5
The New Covenant addresses first spiritual matters and secondarily natural matters (Likewise the Old Testament speaks first to natural things and second to spiritual things). Therefore, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is NOT referring to an actual physical temple. Even if there is another "temple building" built in Jerusalem before Ezekiel's temple, it has nothing to do with the construction of Ezekiel's temple discussed in this study, because the Messiah Yahoshua (Jesus) will be responsible for building the Millennial Temple. Zechariah 6:12 and 13 is clear that the Messiah (and not unredeemed Jews) will build the Lord's temple:
"Behold, the Man whose name is the Branch (a term for the Messiah)! From His place He shall branch out, And HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE, Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord. He shall bear the glory, and sit and rule on His throne; So he shall be a priest on His throne, And the counsel of peace shall be between them both (both natural and spiritual governments - or kings and priests)."
When ya look at the whole scripture here incontext, Paul is firstly talking about a falling away, or a condition that the believer is moving from faith to apostacy. What will the result be if that believer who once believed the truth, yet now had accepted the 'LIE'? He'd have the devil rule the throne of his heart. Rule in the one place where Satan should never be. On the throne that Jesus paid for, God's throne, the believers heart.
I'm not saying I believe this at all, but I'm gonna look more into it and hold it as a possibility to ponder.
Here's the link again; http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/1/2008 9:18:32 PM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 9:22:31 PM
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bob97
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Does the bible tell us anywhere that this end time temple is God’s temple? Maybe it is man temple…it could be constructed by man for man and still fulfill the prophecy.
In this age I think all would agree that Christ has fulfilled the necessary sacrifice and the bible gives us no reason to believe any additional is required.
Understand, the non messianic Jews still try to live under the law…without Christ and a new temple is very important for them in their worship of God. The latter days are primarily about the Jewish Nation and when the Antichrist sets in the temple it is to over whelm Israel…not the church as such.
Now...during the millennium Christ will build the last temple.
Well anyway….something to chew on.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 9:28:59 PM
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SonicStudent
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Yes Bob, I think this makes sense. I can understand the 'spiritual' view, but Paul in that scripture, seems to be being more literal to me, although I can't argue with the greek.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 9:32:44 PM
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SonicStudent
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It could be that Pauls words here are capturing both truths. Literal temple of the Jews may be where it happens, but if the Jews believe he (the anti-christ) is their messiah, then satan sits not only in their temple, but also in their hearts.
John 5 43;
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Mmmmmm
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 10:10:19 PM
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bob97
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God temple has always been where His presents dwells. When the glory of God leaves the temple it becomes man’s temple. This was the case in 33AD when Christ died on the Cross; Mat 23:38 And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate.
Then Christ said we would not see Him again until the majority of Israel called out in His name; Mat 23:39 For I tell you this, you will never see Me again until you say, 'Blessings on the One who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
So the point here…we will not see a temple of God until after the Second Coming.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 10:29:53 PM
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SonicStudent
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Agreed!
I think even in the old testament if we think about it, although the Jews had their temple and their mercy seat, and they believed that it was this that gave them power. In reality we see God going before them in various battles and trials when His peoples hearts were in a right place or had turned back to their God. It was and always will be about the battle for the heart.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 10:34:43 PM
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SonicStudent
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OK, back to topic;
If we say that Christ will build Ezekiel's Temple after the 2nd advent, what's the position on the fact that Ezekial's prophecy seems to indicate animal sacrifices?
This confuses me greatly as it does Dan???
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 10:55:39 PM
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bob97
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Here is one explanation;
quote:
So what do both past and future sacrifices accomplish if they don'��t actually remove sin? These sacrifices provide ritual cleansing of the priests, sanctuary, and utensils. Only Christ'��s sacrifice on the cross actually removes one'��s sin. Jerry Hullinger provides a solution that:
. . . deals honestly with the text of Ezekiel, and in no way demeans the work Christ did on the cross. This study suggests that animal sacrifices during the millennium will serve primarily to remove ceremonial uncleanness and prevent defilement from polluting the temple envisioned by Ezekiel. This will be necessary because the glorious presence of Yahweh will once again be dwelling on earth in the midst of a sinful and unclean people.
Because of God's promise to dwell on earth during the millennium (as stated in the New Covenant), it is necessary that He protect His presence through sacrifice . . . It should further be added that this sacrificial system will be a temporary one in that the millennium (with its partial population of unglorified humanity) will last only one thousand years.[3]
This is pretty typical of the explanations I've read.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/1/2008 11:31:41 PM
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SonicStudent
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Mmmmm, worth keeping in mind, but a bit like a McDonnalds burger - tastes nice at the time and you make do, but doesn't really satisfy for long LOL
The killing of innocent animals was the suffering of the innocent for the guilty, which ever way you shake it, that was a shadow of the true sacrifice that was done once for all, and 'is finished', and 'completed'. The curtain ripped by God, not to be stitched back together, if you get me.
I just can't have any faith in anything that suggests that Christ left anything undone in some way.
Complete work for me. There must be something we do not yet understand, some mystery yet to be revealed. Either that, or we have it all wrong regarding some of these prophecies????
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/2/2008 2:35:40 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Does the bible tell us anywhere that this end time temple is God’s temple? Maybe it is man temple…it could be constructed by man for man and still fulfill the prophecy.
In this age I think all would agree that Christ has fulfilled the necessary sacrifice and the bible gives us no reason to believe any additional is required.
Understand, the non messianic Jews still try to live under the law…without Christ and a new temple is very important for them in their worship of God. The latter days are primarily about the Jewish Nation and when the Antichrist sets in the temple it is to over whelm Israel…not the church as such.
Now...during the millennium Christ will build the last temple.
Well anyway….something to chew on.
Bob
You need to understand the sacrificial system that the Isra'elis were given in the Torah: The burnt offerings and the sin offerings were fulfilled in the sacrifice of Yeshua` on the Roman cross; however, there were other sacrifices besides the offerings to cover sins! See http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm. The Red Heifer sacrifice must be made once to initiate the Temple when it has been built. The burnt offering will be sacrificed once for Isra'el when they have come to believe in Yeshua` as their Messiah, but all other offerings in the Millennium will be thanksgiving sacrifices, food and drink offerings. All of these offerings are made to give God thanks (todah) and to provide for the Levi'im (the Levites) and the cohanim (the priests).
I would look at the book of Ezekiel for your answers to the above questions. Ezek. 40-48 are about the future Temple constructed by Messiah and 44:11 in particular answers at least one of your questions.
Retrobyter
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/2/2008 9:01:11 AM
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Dan94
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Praise God for brothers who help other brothers see a deeper side of our Lord. I thought I was off base a little when I spoke of a "spiritual" temple that the Anti-Christ would take up the throne. I have heard people say and I used to say it myself before Christ found me. "Well when I see the 3rd temple being built, then I'll become a Christian" Well the 3rd temple could be under construction (spiritually speaking) right now. And He shall come as a thief in the night...He does not have to wait for the 3rd temple to be constructed. Maybe the 3rd temple started construction when our "Supreme Court" took the bible out of schools and started the "You can not pray in the class room rules. I'm getting ready to go to church and do not have time to expand on this. Are there any other believers that think this could be a real possibility?
Thank you Retrobyter, SonicStudent and Bob97 for your insight and SonicStudent I will check out that link you gave me.
Love in Christ our Lord...Dan
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/2/2008 10:37:46 AM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Does the bible tell us anywhere that this end time temple is God’s temple? Maybe it is man temple…it could be constructed by man for man and still fulfill the prophecy.
In this age I think all would agree that Christ has fulfilled the necessary sacrifice and the bible gives us no reason to believe any additional is required.
Understand, the non messianic Jews still try to live under the law…without Christ and a new temple is very important for them in their worship of God. The latter days are primarily about the Jewish Nation and when the Antichrist sets in the temple it is to over whelm Israel…not the church as such.
Now...during the millennium Christ will build the last temple.
Well anyway….something to chew on.
Bob
You need to understand the sacrificial system that the Isra'elis were given in the Torah: The burnt offerings and the sin offerings were fulfilled in the sacrifice of Yeshua` on the Roman cross; however, there were other sacrifices besides the offerings to cover sins! See http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm. The Red Heifer sacrifice must be made once to initiate the Temple when it has been built. The burnt offering will be sacrificed once for Isra'el when they have come to believe in Yeshua` as their Messiah, but all other offerings in the Millennium will be thanksgiving sacrifices, food and drink offerings. All of these offerings are made to give God thanks (todah) and to provide for the Levi'im (the Levites) and the cohanim (the priests).
I would look at the book of Ezekiel for your answers to the above questions. Ezek. 40-48 are about the future Temple constructed by Messiah and 44:11 in particular answers at least one of your questions.
Retrobyter
Thanks for that Retrobyter, that explains a lot for me actually, wow, many thanks
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/2/2008 11:06:58 AM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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Yeah...Brother Retro is a pretty solid source...Shalom Retro! 
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/3/2008 6:13:10 PM
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Dan94
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From: Upstate New York
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SonicStudent,
Thanks for the link, I found it very informing and has helped me understand a lot more then before. I do believe the spirit of the Anti-Christ is at work today, more then ever before. The shadows of his rule are all around us and I'm afraid the USA will not be exempt from his lies and in fact may be among the center of his lying tongue, does not our media go out to the whole world. I know that your British by your posts on Obama and not to belittle any of the worlds press...but is not the whole world set up to believe his lies? I think I read somewhere that he will not give himself to woman..maybe he will be a professed homosexual as well...now tell me the stage is not set for that?
To get back to the animal sacrifices, it is still hard for me to grasp..is the future economy going to be once again, measured by how many bulls or goats a man may own?...just a thought.
_____________________________
Born Again into true life on Oct.1,1994
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/3/2008 7:02:44 PM
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SonicStudent
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I sure hope not, or i'm flat broke LOL
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The 1000 year reign of Christ - 11/3/2008 8:18:26 PM
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Dan94
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From: Upstate New York
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Yeah, in this town a family got in trouble for having a Pot Belly Pig in their house, I can not even imagine the fine for a bull in the living room.
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