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SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:09:32 AM
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tomhillbilly
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Just a thought on how christians should speak of people that have died. I guess it was the way i was raised not to speak ill of the dead.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:47:44 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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The truth about someone is still the truth; regardless of whether they are alive or dead.
Being dead doesn't change facts about how a person lived their life.
I think the greater issues are that of forgiveness and also the heart and motive of the speaker.
My mother (who is no longer living) was a violent person. That is truth.
However, how, when and why I discuss that points to whether I have forgiven her and whether I have asked Our Lord to cover that particular aspect of my life.
Speaking ill of anyone - whether living or dead - reveals a lot about who is doing the speaking.
How, when and why . . . those are the criteria to look at; not the what.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:52:26 AM
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Child4Jesus
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What would be wrong about that?
If what you are saying are true statements why would it be wrong to say them. Like if the person was a thief? Or liar? Was just plain obnoxious?
This whole, "Don't speak ill of the dead," stuff has crept into the church. At funerals you hear people praising people who where terrible. Pretending as if they were born-again when they weren't and saying how nice/good/pleasant the person was. I have been like, "Who are they talking about?" I'm not saying at a funeral you should be like, she was a drunkard, a liar, a cheat, an abuser, etc. But don't pretend the person was someone they are not.
Think about it. Hilter has died. Is saying how evil he was speaking ill of him?
Like the above poster said. There is a time and place. If someone asking me about so and so, I will say how they were. However I would not go around just saying how bad this person was just because. Forgive like she said also comes into play.
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In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 12:24:49 PM
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rcjames
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Well Jesus said;
(Luk 9:60) Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Is that speaking ill of the dead?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 1:46:18 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
Just a thought on how christians should speak of people that have died. I guess it was the way i was raised not to speak ill of the dead.
Hitler is dead. Do I have to speak well of him?
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 2:11:03 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Hitler is dead. Do I have to speak well of him?
I think Hitler is the exception to almost all ordinary human considerations.
I was taught something similar and in retrospect I can think of some reasons why it makes sense (Hitler excepted of course).
First off, quite obviously a dead person isn't around to defend their reputation
Secondly, we all live imperfect lives, and when we die everything we did or didn't do is probably magnified in the minds of those who remain; what do we want to be remembered for? Wouldn't the Golden Rule require that we do the same for those who have passed?
Thirdly, Phillipians commands us thusly:
Phillipians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
The reality is nothing we say about those who have died will change what they were or weren't; all we are left to is to dwell on their memories, and as much as we dwell on anything, Scripture seems to indicate that should be that which is pure, good, and excellent.
Forth: Ephesians speaks to the effect of unrelenting anger:
Ephesians 4:26-27
"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.
Death is, as much as anything is, a time to make peace and let go of unresolved anger. Obviously such resolution is one sided, but it is important none the less, and hanging on to it and allowing it to move us to unpleasant words about someone who no longer lives, only gives the devil a stronghold.
Finally, I think it speaks really to the belief that God has a purpose for everyone that exists, and as much as that is so, there was a good reason for that person to have existed. If this is so, we should at least appreciate their existence for that reason.
Just a few thoughts.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 2:28:59 PM
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1love1God1way
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When I think of "speaking ill of the dead" I think of someone taking pop-shots at a person once they are gone that they would have never said when they were still around.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 4:35:28 PM
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Bluethread
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The problem of speaking ill of the dead is that they are not there to defend themselves. I try not to talk ill about people at all. I prefer to focus on behaviors and concepts without specifically pointing at any person in particular. This is particular valuable in a society where anything said about a particular person or group of people can be labelled "hate speech".
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 7:41:19 PM
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flyboy2610
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How about Stalin? Mao? Nero? Herod the Great (who murdered toddlers)?
Evil men every one of them, suffering the consequences of their actions.
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Red Green
If you're going to live like there's no hell..... you'd better be right.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 7:48:56 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flyboy2610
How about Stalin? Mao? Nero? Herod the Great (who murdered toddlers)?
Evil men every one of them, suffering the consequences of their actions.
You answered your own question. We can discuss what they did and learn lessons from it. However, we can not really make any judgments about them personally. I have never met them and it is highly likely, in my opinion, that I never will, but I can't be totally sure of that.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 11/13/2008 7:55:50 PM >
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:31:49 PM
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Kerrlaw
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If you can't say something good about someone...
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:36:24 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
If you can't say something good about someone...
...come and sit by me.
--Alice Roosevelt Longsworth
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:39:15 PM
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Ps103
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I understand what you are saying, Jack, and it is wise counsel.
However, this thread grew out of another thread about a particular deceased preacher. I think it is all right to warn people off bad teachings, even if the person has died and cannot defend his position. Just because he has died does not mean that his teachings have magically become good and everything said about them must now be positive.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/13/2008 11:55:06 PM
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crankius
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I think it is perfectly fine to speak ill of the dead.
I homeschool our kiddos. We spend a great deal of time studying history. We look at what people thought and what they did, and we regularly make judgments and draw conclusions.
We learn about the sinful nature, we see things that we recognize in ourselves, we see thinking and behavior we hope to avoid, etc.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/14/2008 7:31:46 AM
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tomhillbilly
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hey great responses everyone
i agree hitler and some other notorious figures are exceptions and point to the most evil and depraved parts of human beings.
in post #4 rcjames referances jesus saying "let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God".
this means let the dead rest, and move on towards good?
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/14/2008 6:49:25 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
hey great responses everyone
i agree hitler and some other notorious figures are exceptions and point to the most evil and depraved parts of human beings.
in post #4 rcjames referances jesus saying "let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God".
this means let the dead rest, and move on towards good?
I let this go the first time, but since it has been repeated there needs to be clarification. It is my understanding that it takes a years to complete the burial process in a traditional jewish internment. The body is on a slab decomposing for a year. Then the bones are gathered up and put in a box. So, the person the Messiah was talking to was just making an excuse and He called him on it. One need not sit outside the tomb for the entire year. So, to say that the Messiah was showing indifference to memorial services is, in my opinion, a misinterpretation of the passage.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD? - 11/16/2008 3:43:49 PM
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tomhillbilly
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noone mentioned christ being indifferent to a memorial service did they?
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