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Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/29/2008 8:19:51 PM
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bob97
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I would like to start a discussion regarding the nature of the seals, trumpets and bowl occurrences in Revelation...specifically are they consecutive in nature or do they overlap one another.
Let’s try to leave the gathering of the Church and or the detailed discussion of the beast out of this dialogue in order to make the appraisal of this question a little easier to deal with.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/29/2008 8:22:53 PM
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DrIjames
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Man, that's a very deep subject. But I believe that we are at the time that we read in Daniel when G-d says that the books would be open.
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/29/2008 8:24:58 PM
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DrIjames
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I believe, and this is not G-d but my opinion, that they may do both.
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/30/2008 12:01:11 AM
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navyblueret
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
I would like to start a discussion regarding the nature of the seals, trumpets and bowl occurrences in Revelation...specifically are they consecutive in nature or do they overlap one another. ...
Bob
Shalom Bob,
I believe that the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls are consecutive, due to the manor of presentation. The seventh seal is broken, Ch 8:1, the trumpets are introduced, and then the happenings of the last seal. The seventh trumpet is blown, the numerous happenings of the last trumpet, and the bowls are then introduced Ch 15. The bowls, I further believe, wrap up the last Great Tribulation months.
One item, not verifiable in the scripture, is the chronological 'when' of the Seals being opened. Most theology prescribes the seals being all opened 'in' the first part of the seven years of tribulation, but I wonder. Many of the happenings involved with the seals, indicate generality of affectation, and require a longer time-frame to achieve consummation of the events. The seals could be an harbinger to the seven years of agreement/tribulation. Seals are to keep a writing secret, and must be opened before one may 'read' the content of the scroll, further justifying the consecutive aspect.
But, I overstep brevity.
In Messiah, His Peace to you and all. Arley
< Message edited by navyblueret -- 11/30/2008 12:15:54 AM >
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In the name of Messiah, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/30/2008 12:32:28 AM
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bob97
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Thank you Arley and welcome...you make some very valid points and I think they will start to provide a foundation to build upon.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/30/2008 3:54:18 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Sonic.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Where's Retro? - Customer call for Retro! Can retro report to; Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive thread please, thank you 
LOL! Yo! Here I am!
I believe, as they are presented, that the seals are definitely consecutive. The description of the "book" is that of a scroll of curses sealed in seven segments. In order to read the next segment, the seal for that segment has to be broken. Therefore, they occur one at a time as they are read by Yeshua`, the Keves (Lamb).
The "trumpets," or rather the SHOFARS that are blown are sirens. Shofars, originally designed from hollowed-out ram's horns, were blown for several reasons, but the chief reason was to warn the people of impending danger. When one starts to blow as a warning, others will pick up the call and blow their own shofars until the whole of Isra'el was warned. Thus, the siren would grow in intensity as more and more guards would join in. We are not told of any "all-clear" signals being blown; so, this is rather an argument from silence, but I can imagine that the warnings do not end but continue on while the next one is blown. I believe that they will be sounded in succession, but that each one adds to the intensity...and the urgency...of the warning! Each one is a "heads up" for the next impending disaster.
The first five shofars are blown literally as air-raid sirens warning of falling meteorites and the disasters that would naturally (or is it supernaturally?) follow. Thus, since these meteorites are probably from the same source, such as the earth passing through the tail of a comet, they are probably in relatively rapid succession. This also makes me think that the sixth seal is caused by a near miss of a comet which temporarily blots out the sun causing an unnatural eclipse, the tail possibly causing the partial eclipse of the moon at the same time. Also, early debris would be seen as a very dense meteor shower, turning into a meteorite shower as the particles of debris increase in size. These would be herald meteorites. Also, the gravitational pull from such a near miss could cause the massive earthquake that is felt and recorded in this prophecy.
I'll write more tomorrow. Gettin' late.
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/30/2008 9:36:40 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Sonic.
Continuing on...
Now, as far as the bowl judgments:
Rev 15:1-16:8
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
KJV
Some have noted some similarities between these bowls of plagues and the shofars, particularly the second, third and fourth of each, but these bowls of plagues are not exactly like the shofars. To the contrary, there are significant differences.
1st Shofar: hail and fire mixed with blood cast upon the earth: 1/3 of trees and all green grass was burnt up.
2nd Shofar: object like a huge mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: 1/3 of the sea became blood; 1/3 of life in sea died; 1/3 of ships destroyed.
3rd Shofar: a huge star, "Wormwood" or "Apsinthos" or "Absinthe," from the sky, burning like a sputtering torch; 1/3 of rivers and fountains of waters poisoned.
4th Shofar: 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars were smitten; day and night didn't shine for 1/3 of each.
5th Shofar: a star falls from the sky to the earth, opened the bottomless pit and released locusts to torment men five months.
6th Shofar: 4 messengers bound in Euphrates released. 200,000,000 cavalry on lion-headed, snake-tailed horses issuing fire, smoke, and sulfur, killing 1/3 of men.
7th Shofar: loud voices in the sky, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
1st Bowl: poured on the earth: an ugly and painful sore upon those who take the mark of the beast and who bowed to his statue.
2nd Bowl: poured upon the sea: sea became like dead man's blood, and every living soul died in the sea.
3rd Bowl: poured upon the rivers and fountains of waters: they became blood.
4th Bowl: poured upon the sun: sun was given power to scorch men with fire.
5th Bowl: poured upon the seat of the beast: his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain.
6th Bowl: poured upon the Euphrates River: its water was dried up, and the road of the oriental kings prepared.
7th Bowl: poured into the air: a voice says, "It is done." thunderclaps, lightnings, earthquake, and talent-sized hail.
Thus, the bowls also will be consecutive, but again, these will probably be in rapid succession, because...
Rev 15:8
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
KJV
Retrobyter
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 11/30/2008 10:11:01 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
I would like to start a discussion regarding the nature of the seals, trumpets and bowl occurrences in Revelation...specifically are they consecutive in nature or do they overlap one another.
Bob:
The seven trumpets come out of the seventh seal judgment (Rev. 8:1,2). Similarly, the seven vial or bowl judgments come out of the seventh trumpet judgment (Rev. 11:15; 15:5,6). Therefore all these judgments are consecutive, with parenthetical accounts of various details included.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 1:04:47 PM
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bob97
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Roy reminded me again, was your vision of the wrath a one or two day event? I don't remember and do not see in anything I've gone back and looked at. I know you have told me and as I recall you see it being a very short period.
Also again do you see the wrath being both the trumpets and bowls? Sometimes I’ve read so many opinions I forget.
Sorry!!
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 4:34:54 PM
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Lapidoth
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I don't know that there will be a general consensus
as it depends a lot on our "assumptions" to so many
things.
So, I'll float around and read the responses.
I'm still in the "learning mode." lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 7:12:11 PM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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That's why I want to see if anyone has any fresh insight.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 10:47:03 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 437
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Roy remind me again, was your vision of the wrath a one or two day event? I don't remember and do not see in anything I've gone back and looked at. I know you have told me and as I recall you see it being a very short period.
Also again do you see the wrath being both the trumpets and bowls? Sometimes I’ve read so many opinions I forget.
Sorry!!
Bob
Actually, because I believe that there are only 3-1/2 years left of the 7 years in Dani'el's last shavuah (Hebrew for "seven" translated "week" in the KJV), then the length of the God's wrath is not tied to a 3-1/2-year period, as some believe.
Secondly, because I believe that God will protect and preserve His children THROUGH God's Wrath, then it is actually a moot subject as far as we are concerned. We do not have to be supernaturally removed from this earth; we will not suffer from His Wrath.
To answer your question, however, I would say yes. I do see both the trumpets (and the thunders) and the bowls as God's wrath on unbelievers who hate and abuse His people, primarily the Jews--especially of Yisra'el--but also His believing Gentiles, because the Remnant consists of ALL those grafted into His nation, His "olive tree." (WITHIN HIM, there is "no difference between the Jew and the Greek."-Rom. 10:12 ALL become a part of the "commonwealth of Yisra'el."-Eph. 2:12)
God's Wrath definitely starts when the Day of the Lord starts, i.e. with the sun and moon darkened, and the stars falling to earth. (6th Seal) However, His Wrath continues even after Yeshua` the Messiah has returned! It does not end until the birds (and animals) are picking at their bones!
The Wrath of God will last at least 5 months (5th Shofar), but probably longer as these events cascade together. As to how much time elapses between the 6th Seal and the 7th Shofar, I don't know. BUT, as I said before, I don't believe it will take that much time because they could indeed overlap and the beginning of the sounding of the Shofars still be consecutive.
Did that answer your questions sufficiently?
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 11:44:15 PM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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So Roy…you’re telling me that the wrath of God from the 6th seal forward to the 7th trumpet could possible be as long as a year. Actually I think the bowls could carry over into the 30 days following the return of Christ and could in fact be the case where all seven of them occur in that period.
By the way I don’t think you have ever told me what your take is on the great multitude appearing before the throne at the 6th seal, when John is told that it is those coming out of the great tribulation.
If I use your assessment of the time line, which I don’t necessary disagree with it would put me right back to my baseline position(pre wrath) where the rapture would occur at Rosh Hashanah and the 7th trumpet would occur the following year on Yom Kippur.
The purpose of my questioning was to put pre wrath aside and explore other scenarios that would bring me more towards your modified post trib position…still trying but I’m not there yet. I am trying to keep an open mind and I sure don’t have it figured out yet.
Yes you have answered my question on that issue.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/1/2008 11:55:00 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2014
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From: Kansas
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Roy…by the way thanks!
Hate to keep asking all these dumb questions but you're my main source of information and I respect your inputs… like I've said...I don't always agree but I sure pay attention.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/2/2008 1:03:14 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 437
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
So Roy…you’re telling me that the wrath of God from the 6th seal forward to the 7th trumpet could possible be as long as a year. Actually I think the bowls could carry over into the 30 days following the return of Christ and could in fact be the case where all seven of them occur in that period.
By the way I don’t think you have ever told me what your take is on the great multitude appearing before the throne at the 6th seal, when John is told that it is those coming out of the great tribulation.
If I use your assessment of the time line, which I don’t necessary disagree with it would put me right back to my baseline position(pre wrath) where the rapture would occur at Rosh Hashanah and the 7th trumpet would occur the following year on Yom Kippur.
The purpose of my questioning was to put pre wrath aside and explore other scenarios that would bring me more towards your modified post trib position…still trying but I’m not there yet. I am trying to keep an open mind and I sure don’t have it figured out yet.
Yes you have answered my question on that issue.
Bob
Yes, it could be as long as a year. I believe you're right about the bowls carrying over into the 30 days following Yeshua` the Messiah's return.
Rev 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV
My take on this "great multitude: is this: I believe they are the LIVING believers who, like those who welcomed Yeshua` the first time when He entered Yerushalayim, will fulfill the welcome that Yeshua` deserves when He is coming the second time! They have palm leaves in their hands, which I assume will be used to cast before His feet and those of His steed as He arrives in honor. I also believe that what they say is significant: "[A call for] Rescue to Eloheinu who sits upon the throne, and to haKeves." This is the PRAYER that is prophesied in Psalm 118:22-26 and was transliterated as "Hosanna" in the Gospels when we read "Hosanna in the highest":
Ps 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV
Matt 21:8-9
8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
KJV
Mark 11:8-10
8 And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
KJV
John 12:12-13
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
They are all those who simply rejoice in His coming as Yeshua` the Messiah ben Daviyd, the conquering and victorious Messiah and plead for Him to rescue His people...ALL His people! I believe that the main reason for mentioning them here is to off-set the relatively few Jews who are said to be sealed here.
However, I believe that this is a future vision even within Yochanan's relating of his vision! It's a PREVIEW! How do we know this? Well, from the few verses which follow:
Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV
The key phrases here are...
"they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple," (Rev. 22:3)
"He who sits on the throne shall dwell among them," (Rev. 21:3)
"they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more," (Rev. 21:6; 22:1, 2)
"neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat," (Rev. 21:23; 22:5)
"the Lamb who is in the middle of the throne shall feed them," (Rev. 2:7, 17; 22:2)
"(the Lamb) shall lead them unto living fountains of waters," and (Rev. 21:6; 22:1, 2)
"God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." (Rev. 21:4)
These are all YET TO BE fulfilled, even at this point where they were mentioned.
And, finally, as far as "great tribulation" here, I would venture to say that it is SOME great tribulation. Sometimes, we too easily apply a label to what we are reading rather than read to understand. Try not to think of these words "great tribulation" as a label for a particular time period; instead, think of them in their translation: "These are they who came out of terrible pressure (WHENEVER that pressure occurred for each of them individually!)" It's not that they all came out of the SAME EVENT OR PERIOD; it's that they all came out UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES!
(For those who know the Greek and know that the words are "tees thlipseoos tees megalees" which directly translates to "the huge pressure," I would only remind them that, from a Westerner's perspective, the definite article is often "over-used" in Greek, such as in "ho Ieesous," meaning "the Yeshua`.")
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/2/2008 10:35:34 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2014
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From: Kansas
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quote:
My take on this "great multitude: is this: I believe they are the LIVING believers who, like those who welcomed Yeshua` the first time when He entered Yerushalayim, will fulfill the welcome that Yeshua` deserves when He is coming the second time! They have palm leaves in their hands, which I assume will be used to cast before His feet and those of His steed as He arrives in honor. I also believe that what they say is significant: "[A call for] Rescue to Eloheinu who sits upon the throne, and to haKeves." This is the PRAYER that is prophesied in Psalm 118:22-26 and was transliterated as "Hosanna" in the Gospels when we read "Hosanna in the highest":
This is kind of supported by Rev 8:3;
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:3
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/2/2008 1:10:19 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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This has been very interesting so far.
I allows like food for thought.
We just started the Book of Hebrews this morning,
so it will be a while before we visit Revelation again.
So, this will give me plenty to ponder before we get there.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/2/2008 9:45:21 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 437
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
So Roy…you’re telling me that the wrath of God from the 6th seal forward to the 7th trumpet could possible be as long as a year. Actually I think the bowls could carry over into the 30 days following the return of Christ and could in fact be the case where all seven of them occur in that period.
By the way I don’t think you have ever told me what your take is on the great multitude appearing before the throne at the 6th seal, when John is told that it is those coming out of the great tribulation.
If I use your assessment of the time line, which I don’t necessary disagree with it would put me right back to my baseline position(pre wrath) where the rapture would occur at Rosh Hashanah and the 7th trumpet would occur the following year on Yom Kippur.
The purpose of my questioning was to put pre wrath aside and explore other scenarios that would bring me more towards your modified post trib position…still trying but I’m not there yet. I am trying to keep an open mind and I sure don’t have it figured out yet.
Yes you have answered my question on that issue.
Bob
I'll be honest with you. I'm quite comfortable with my base beliefs, especially when it comes to eschatology, but you do make me dig deeper, and frankly I enjoy it! I absolutely LOVE digging into God's Word for the particulars. Thank YOU for asking all the questions!
Roy
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/2/2008 11:41:39 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Roy...
Good...then it's kind of like the parable of the dog and the flea...I’ll root about and you provide the nourishment.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/3/2008 11:39:03 AM
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navyblueret
Posts: 84
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
This has been very interesting so far.
I allows like food for thought.
We just started the Book of Hebrews this morning,
so it will be a while before we visit Revelation again.
So, this will give me plenty to ponder before we get there.
Shalom Lapidoth.
Perhaps Daniel and Revelation should be a blanket around all study, including Hebrews, as to event chronology. Understanding the time we are in, relates heavily in reference to the time they were in, and V/V.
Just a thought I feel worth consideration.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and guidance. Arley
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In the name of Messiah, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/3/2008 1:16:14 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Yes we forget that events of the past are but shadows of the future. To often we say "that's already happened".
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/3/2008 3:01:43 PM
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Montana Marv
Posts: 59
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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To All
It is my position that the 7- S.T,B's are all in order without any overlaps. Example - 7 doors are the 7 seals, not until the 7th door is open are the trumpets revealed, 7 file boxes stacked. Then not until the 7th file box is opened are the bowls revealed or 7 large envelops stacked, then open the envelops one by one.
It is possible that all do not occur until the last half of the Trib. When the antichrist is revealed what will the world environment be like under his rule peace or chaos? Rev 13:4 - who is like this beast who can make war against him. Much if not all the S,T,B's create havoc, which are not a peaceful environment, thus it is a good idea that they occur during the last 3 1/2 years of the Trib.
For all indications Israel will live in peace for 3 1/2 years and then run into hiding during the last 3 1/2 years.
In Christ
Montana Marv
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/3/2008 7:57:29 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Well, Bob, I just started a thread about the second seal and it seems to be consecutive. The first seal is already opened and I think the Lord will open the second one very soon. It's only a matter of time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
I would like to start a discussion regarding the nature of the seals, trumpets and bowl occurrences in Revelation...specifically are they consecutive in nature or do they overlap one another.
Let’s try to leave the gathering of the Church and or the detailed discussion of the beast out of this dialogue in order to make the appraisal of this question a little easier to deal with.
Bob
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RE: Rev… are the events overlapping or consecutive - 12/3/2008 11:09:05 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Dancre...there are those who believe the first five seal are already open.
Yes I believe the seals certainly are opened consecutively. The intent of my question was...do the trumpets overlap between the 6th and 7th seal and is the 7th seal the same as the 7th trumpet? I didn't state the question in this fashion because I wanted to give the subject a little more latitude.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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