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Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 12:06:10 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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In my life there is a certain issue that affects several family members, and concerns relationships with people who are supposed to be fellow Christian believers. They have completely cut off communication with all but one member of our side of the situation. This person is the most profoundly affected one, but also the brunt of the contention. He seeks reconciliation at every opportunity, and has acquiesced to many requests from the other side in attempts to progress toward that goal, but to no avail.
Over several months we have sought reconciliation with these people in every possible biblical manner we can think of. And we have prayed, constantly and scripturally, but especially when there seemed to be some promise of progress.
As of yet, this has not brought a breakthrough, and due to the nature of the situation, there needs to be resolution in a certain area of the situation...there's a time limit.
Here are the things I'm thinking/wondering:
1) Sometimes people just can't reconcile. Especially when one party has done everything scripturally necessary to effect that reconciliation, but the other party has not responded scripturally. In that case, the first party has scriptural permission to move on with their lives, making decisions without considering the other party (except to make sure that the way remains open for future reconciliation).
OR
2) God is saying something. Well, ok, God says stuff all the time, but in this instance, He might be saying any number of things. The question is, which one and how do we tell?
a) He might be saying wait. Thing is, if He is saying that, we need to know within the week. Honestly. I'm sorry I can't give any more details, but we really need to know.
b) He might be saying move on. Ok, we can do that. But we need to be sure. How can we know?
c) He might be speaking to one or another of one of the parties, asking them to take action that they have hesitated to take due to the sensitivity of the issue. For instance, He might be asking one of the members of the first party to attempt a direct communication with the other party. The potential for disaster is high. How do we know?
d) He might be saying this is a no-go, drop the whole thing. This answer would be intensely painful for many of the party members, but everyone in my side of the party is willing to do it if we know for sure God is saying this. How do we know?
Any thoughts? What do you do when you pray and pray and act as biblically and lovingly as you know how but there is still no progress? How do you even think about this in a righteous manner? It seems as if God simply isn't answering, and we're stuck in a holding pattern until He does.
shallbe
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SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 7:09:42 AM
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Giulia
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From: Giulia
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Be patient. Trust and obey. Our satisfaction is not what matters in the end and sometimes in our requests we ask to satisfy our temporal, whilst God thinks of the Eternal and that is what matters.
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 8:07:20 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2201
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
Be patient. Trust and obey. Our satisfaction is not what matters in the end and sometimes in our requests we ask to satisfy our temporal, whilst God thinks of the Eternal and that is what matters.
Thanks for reading my post, Giulia, and taking the time to respond. It seems as if, however, I did not communicate my intentions well enough.
We are not opposed to waiting. But we need to know IF we should wait, or IF we are supposed to take action.
We most definitely desire to Trust and Obey. We do not know what that would look like at this moment.
How can we find out?
shallbe
_____________________________
SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 10:11:15 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5769
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
Be patient. Trust and obey. Our satisfaction is not what matters in the end and sometimes in our requests we ask to satisfy our temporal, whilst God thinks of the Eternal and that is what matters.
Thanks for reading my post, Giulia, and taking the time to respond. It seems as if, however, I did not communicate my intentions well enough.
We are not opposed to waiting. But we need to know IF we should wait, or IF we are supposed to take action.
We most definitely desire to Trust and Obey. We do not know what that would look like at this moment.
How can we find out?
shallbe
If after searching your heart, you have confessed what ever culpability you may have had in the schism and sought the forgiveness of God for that culpability.
(1Jn 1:9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And iff you hve gone to the person(s) who have ought against you in all humility, and apologized and sought forgiveness for anything thay you may have done wrong to them, to try and be recnn
(Mat 5:23,24) Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Then if you were sincere in the obedience of God's Word; there is nothing else you can do but wait, and not be overly cncerned about their actions or the end run outcome.
Christ said this to the twelve;
(Mat 10:12) And when ye come into an house, salute it.
(Mat 10:13) And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
(Mat 10:14) And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
His instructions concerning the speaking of the Gospel to someone was to try, and if they do not recieve you; then forget about it, and go on with one's life.
It is not God's job to fix every situation to our desires, but it is our job to be obedient to His Word.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 10:51:19 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2201
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
Be patient. Trust and obey. Our satisfaction is not what matters in the end and sometimes in our requests we ask to satisfy our temporal, whilst God thinks of the Eternal and that is what matters.
Thanks for reading my post, Giulia, and taking the time to respond. It seems as if, however, I did not communicate my intentions well enough.
We are not opposed to waiting. But we need to know IF we should wait, or IF we are supposed to take action.
We most definitely desire to Trust and Obey. We do not know what that would look like at this moment.
How can we find out?
shallbe
If after searching your heart, you have confessed what ever culpability you may have had in the schism and sought the forgiveness of God for that culpability.
(1Jn 1:9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And iff you hve gone to the person(s) who have ought against you in all humility, and apologized and sought forgiveness for anything thay you may have done wrong to them, to try and be recnn
(Mat 5:23,24) Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Then if you were sincere in the obedience of God's Word; there is nothing else you can do but wait, and not be overly cncerned about their actions or the end run outcome.
Christ said this to the twelve;
(Mat 10:12) And when ye come into an house, salute it.
(Mat 10:13) And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
(Mat 10:14) And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
His instructions concerning the speaking of the Gospel to someone was to try, and if they do not recieve you; then forget about it, and go on with one's life.
It is not God's job to fix every situation to our desires, but it is our job to be obedient to His Word.
Thanks
RC
Thanks, RC...these are all things we have done--more than once!!--to try to be reconciled.
And so, I think going on is what we have to do--I am not the only one involved, so others have to realize this for themselves, too. There have been two other situations in in my life when I have had to do this, so I am familiar with the signs.
I still would like to hear what people think about this situation, but praise God He gave us a sliver of information last night that helped with the time limit element. We are no longer pressed for time as regards this part of the situation.
So...He DID answer the prayers, even though He did not bring breakthrough or resolution.
shallbe
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SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 11:12:01 AM
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dainsall
Posts: 22
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Shallbe,
I have been dealing with the same type of issue for a long time. If all are professing Christians there is a scripture passage that speaks to this very issue. It is Matthew 18:15-20 18:15
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
18:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18:18
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
There is an issue that may make this all mute, it is if there has been a crime committed. It is our responsibility to report crime to the proper authorities.
If no crime has been committed you should start at the beginning of these biblical steps and follow them earnestly.
The first would be to go to the offending party or parties and inform them of the problem and make every effort to reconcile the differences.
If you have already go to the offender it is time to go to the pastor and set up a meeting and confront them before the witness. If this does not work it is time to take it before the Church. If there is still no repentance it is time to stop all contact with the offending party. Sometimes we need to get out of the way so God can work in other's life.
I hope this helps. You are in my prayers,
Annette
_____________________________
Prepare the Way of the Lord. Make God Known Where You Are.
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 12:11:58 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2201
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dainsall
Shallbe,
I have been dealing with the same type of issue for a long time. If all are professing Christians there is a scripture passage that speaks to this very issue. It is Matthew 18:15-20 18:15
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
18:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18:18
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
There is an issue that may make this all mute, it is if there has been a crime committed. It is our responsibility to report crime to the proper authorities.
If no crime has been committed you should start at the beginning of these biblical steps and follow them earnestly.
The first would be to go to the offending party or parties and inform them of the problem and make every effort to reconcile the differences.
If you have already go to the offender it is time to go to the pastor and set up a meeting and confront them before the witness. If this does not work it is time to take it before the Church. If there is still no repentance it is time to stop all contact with the offending party. Sometimes we need to get out of the way so God can work in other's life.
I hope this helps. You are in my prayers,
Annette
Thanks, Annette:
First has been done. More than once. 
2 different pastors have been consulted. At no time has the other party been willing to visit TOGETHER with our side WITH a pastor. And after these two visits, two other professional counselors have been hired by the other party (because our "side" has chosen not to meet with them alone anymore) and yet they STILL won't meet with us...it seems from our side that they keep changing counselors when they don't like what one says.
I think we're stuck somewhere between "take it to the Church" (and exactly HOW would that be done? We all attend different churches...) and stopping all contact.
*sigh*
Thanks for the confirmation, though. It helps to have all these scriptures we've been poring over for months repeated to us from outside the situation.
shallbe
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SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 2:55:21 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1343
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The answer in these situations is always plain and simple even in the most controversial and difficult scenarios.
Scenario: Party A wants peace and reconciliation and Party B is non-compliant after many attempts.
Answer: Party A shakes off the dust and carrys on always with an open door and mind should B come to their senses.
This works in family, church, friendships, and work situations.
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/16/2008 3:24:23 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5769
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
I still would like to hear what people think about this situation, but praise God He gave us a sliver of information last night that helped with the time limit element. We are no longer pressed for time as regards this part of the situation.
If you would be more specific about the "Situation" I am sure that you would get a plethora of responses.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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unfortunately - 10/17/2008 7:25:05 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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I know you are right, rc, but I am simply not at liberty. Too many people have been hurt already.
I feel that the answers already given confirm that we have done all that we can scripturally. When God opens the door I will counsel the others on my side to move on. I think they will listen eventually.
I do still wonder why God doesn't answer these righteous prayers, but that's not my business.
Shallbe
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SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: unfortunately - 10/21/2008 9:59:56 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5769
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
I do still wonder why God doesn't answer these righteous prayers, but that's not my business.
Shallbe
As to why God has not answered your prayers to your satisfation>
(1Jn 5:14) And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
(1Jn 5:15) And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
If we pray in God's will we know that the request will be honored. God's will is the key.
The idea that all folks (even family) are supposed to stand around and sing "Kum-ba-ya" is just not Scriptural. Jesus says;
(Mat 10:35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
(Mat 10:36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
(Mat 10:37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
(Mat 10:38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
If you search your heart and are confident that you have done every thing possible according to Scripture to reconcile; then you need to get over it, continue with your life, and stop letting the devil destroy your peace over something cannot change.
I will have my Church pray that you get past this hurdle that has been set before you by the enemy to detrimentally affect your Christian walk.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unfortunately - 10/21/2008 10:10:31 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3261
Status: online
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Sometimes, people choose not to reconcile because they've been badly hurt and any attempt by the other party to make amends is futile. Perhaps, they've reached the breaking point in the relationship; perhaps,they see that the same pattern is going to emerge in the relationship; perhaps the party attempting to reconcile is trying to appear more pious or godly, or superior. Perhaps, the attemp doesn't sound sincere. Perhaps there's no clear reason why the other party is attempting reconciliation; no promise or hope of change is being given. Perhaps, the relationship is irretrievably broken, the hurts are so deep, that allowing for the relationship to continue is to just open up old wounds. Perhaps, the hearts has been hardened. In any of those cases, I wouldn't reconcile. I'd forgive in silent, but move on with my life without them. LIfe is simply too short to continue in relationships that has left me hurt and damaged.
< Message edited by Prairiehiker -- 10/21/2008 10:26:11 AM >
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RE: unfortunately - 10/21/2008 11:46:41 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2201
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
I will have my Church pray that you get past this hurdle that has been set before you by the enemy to detrimentally affect your Christian walk.
Thanks, RC. Prayers are appreciated. Include my whole family, if you will.
shallbe
_____________________________
SHALLBE’S BATTY BELFRY
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/22/2008 1:28:20 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2069
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quote:
I still would like to hear what people think about this situation, but praise God He gave us a sliver of information last night that helped with the time limit element. We are no longer pressed for time as regards this part of the situation.
So...He DID answer the prayers, even though He did not bring breakthrough or resolution.
I think this is a VERY IMPORTANT 'sliver of information', shallbe. God is speaking. And based on everything you have shared, and this answer to your prayer, I'd say God is very definitely honoring your prayer and asking you to "walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." (Eph 4:1-3)
I emphasized the things I am hearing as I share this scripture with you. Bless you for your good and godly response to this difficult situation. It is so easy for the flesh to rise up. And the enemy looks for opportunities to entice that nasty fleshly response. I am encouraged to hear such a beautiful and patient willingness to not move ahead of God but the desire to keep in step with the Spirit. I pray the Lord continues to speak and encourage your heart as you faithfully wait on Him. Bless you, LL
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RE: Prayer and Scriptural Action, but no breakthrough? - 10/22/2008 11:52:42 AM
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iamjc-s
Posts: 335
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Wait for God's reply/response.
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