Obama seems to be the last person to be president in this economy. Where am I wrong?
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Obama seems to be the last person to be president in th... - 10/23/2008 8:26:30 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
Joined: 12/28/2007
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These are the facts that have been presented me. Where am I wrong?
The whole reason our economy went downhill was because of the houseing market bubble bursting. This was caused because of so many sub prime mortgages, or risky mortgages given to those with bad credit and/or with a high risk of not being able to pay. Many dems pushed this because they wanted to allow those with low income the ability to own a home; good goal, bad method. This caused many to default on their mortgages.
The loans were first pushed in the community reinvestment act by Jimmy Carter. President Clinton expaned the number of sub prime loans and forced banks to issue 1 Trillion in sub prime loans. George Bush, John McCain, Allen Greenspan and several others tried to push through regulation for Fannie Mae but they were stopped.
One of the biggest dealers, if not he biggest dealer, in subprime mortgages was Fannie Mae. Remember hearing about them going under at the same time our market took a plunge? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Obama chose Jim Johnson to help him select his VP. Jim Johnson was once a CEO of Fannie Mae. Barak gets advice on housing issues from Franklin Raines who was a vice chairman for Fannie Mae.
We need a President who knows how to cut spending and not just taxes. Obama has requested about 1 billion dollars in earmarks for his district. In all his years in the senate, McCain has not asked for a cent of earmarks.
BTW. You will not find this information in the major media. Have you wondered at all why the major media has not covered the reasons for our economic crisis?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/earmark.check/
http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611103/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmB93McZeI
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/23/2008 9:50:00 PM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
The loans were first pushed in the community reinvestment act by Jimmy Carter. President Clinton expaned the number of sub prime loans and forced banks to issue 1 Trillion in sub prime loans. George Bush, John McCain, Allen Greenspan and several others tried to push through regulation for Fannie Mae but they were stopped. NO NO NO NO. No one FORCED banks to give bad loans. No one forced banks to drop just about every underwriting standard they ever had. I don't know where all this rot about the CRA got started but it's a very bad scapegoat.
quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Fanne and Freddie were equal opportunity donators and Obama didn't even make the top 10 if I remember correctly.
I watched the video you linked. The CRA is just not to blame, it ALLOWED the banks to do what they did but did not force them. They made the choice, not the legislators. Yes, the legislators made it easier for them by relaxing regulations and standards which is the mantra of free marketers everywhere. Yeah. Look where it got us.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 8:00:59 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1934
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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I have to agree with you in that the banks were not 'forced' to make the loans. They were blackmailed into making them. They were pressured into making them. They were hauled into congress and threatened if they did NOT make them. But, in the end, they were not 'forced'.
They could have stood up against the Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus. They could have ignored the picketing by ACORN. They could have told congress that they refused to make bad loans in bad neighborhoods and just lived with the bad press from the left.
Liberals never cease to amaze me. They march in the streets to pressure banks. They browbeat bank executives in hearing after hearing. They accuse the banks of racism if they don't make the idiotic loan. And, then, when the banks get into trouble doing EXACTLY WHAT THE LEFT WANTED, they are called stupid and the Libs attack them for buckling to the libs own pressure. Go figure! 
The one thing that Liberals can be counted on to do is to never take any responsibility for their actions. You can ALWAYS count on that!
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
The loans were first pushed in the community reinvestment act by Jimmy Carter. President Clinton expaned the number of sub prime loans and forced banks to issue 1 Trillion in sub prime loans. George Bush, John McCain, Allen Greenspan and several others tried to push through regulation for Fannie Mae but they were stopped. NO NO NO NO. No one FORCED banks to give bad loans. No one forced banks to drop just about every underwriting standard they ever had. I don't know where all this rot about the CRA got started but it's a very bad scapegoat.
quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Fanne and Freddie were equal opportunity donators and Obama didn't even make the top 10 if I remember correctly.
I watched the video you linked. The CRA is just not to blame, it ALLOWED the banks to do what they did but did not force them. They made the choice, not the legislators. Yes, the legislators made it easier for them by relaxing regulations and standards which is the mantra of free marketers everywhere. Yeah. Look where it got us.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 9:20:53 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
One of the biggest dealers, if not he biggest dealer, in subprime mortgages was Fannie Mae. Remember hearing about them going under at the same time our market took a plunge? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Obama chose Jim Johnson to help him select his VP. Jim Johnson was once a CEO of Fannie Mae. Barak gets advice on housing issues from Franklin Raines who was a vice chairman for Fannie Mae.
This should be really troubling to everyone; even the Obama kool-aid drinkers.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 9:49:01 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 360
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
These are the facts that have been presented me. Where am I wrong?
The whole reason our economy went downhill was because of the houseing market bubble bursting. This was caused because of so many sub prime mortgages, or risky mortgages given to those with bad credit and/or with a high risk of not being able to pay. Many dems pushed this because they wanted to allow those with low income the ability to own a home; good goal, bad method. This caused many to default on their mortgages.
The loans were first pushed in the community reinvestment act by Jimmy Carter. President Clinton expaned the number of sub prime loans and forced banks to issue 1 Trillion in sub prime loans. George Bush, John McCain, Allen Greenspan and several others tried to push through regulation for Fannie Mae but they were stopped.
One of the biggest dealers, if not he biggest dealer, in subprime mortgages was Fannie Mae. Remember hearing about them going under at the same time our market took a plunge? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Obama chose Jim Johnson to help him select his VP. Jim Johnson was once a CEO of Fannie Mae. Barak gets advice on housing issues from Franklin Raines who was a vice chairman for Fannie Mae.
We need a President who knows how to cut spending and not just taxes. Obama has requested about 1 billion dollars in earmarks for his district. In all his years in the senate, McCain has not asked for a cent of earmarks.
BTW. You will not find this information in the major media. Have you wondered at all why the major media has not covered the reasons for our economic crisis?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/earmark.check/
http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611103/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmB93McZeI
Your contention presupposes that subprime loans alone are the cause of the financial problems of today, and that is just simply not true - in fact, it's impossible that SUBPRIME LOANS alone are the cause of today's credit crunch - and here's what I mean.
When this all started to unravel (around 2007) subprime loans represented about 6.8% of the loans outstanding in the U.S. In a nation where the mortgage market makes up over 50% of the GDP, this is a significant number but NOT by any means a "market killer". If EVERY subprime loan stood on it's own and was to default, you are looking at a very small percentage of the GDP that would be affected-at the most, something along the lines of the computer bubble burst of the early 2,000's-remembering again that's if EVERY loan defaulted. Instead, merely a percentage of those loans (less than 20%) started to default.
That's just not enough volume of money to cause the credit crunch we find ourselves in today. Why the issues of today? The subprime mortgages did NOT stand on their own-they were instead used to create "credit" out of thin air using CDO's and "leveraged" lending instruments (to the tune of $6.5 TRILLION in "mortgage backed securities" - or up to 50% of the U.S. GDP). One dollar in a subprime loan was turned into $30-40 dollars in "credit" that banks loaned back and forth to each other. When that one dollar didn't come in for the mortgage, it didn't cost the bank one dollar in lost assets, it cost the bank $30.00 in repayments from several creditors. Of course, as soon as banks saw this (and had no way to judge when it might happen again) the only solution they had was to stop lending money at all-that's why the credit crunch of today-essentially, the banks (who fought for LESS regulation and were well supported under Republican administrations) had "out smarted" themselves. By "bundling" these loans into complex instruments that they themselves could not unravel, they forced themselves to push the panic button (lend nothing because there was no way to determine if they would get the money back or not) and essentially freeze up the markets of the world.
That's why EVERYONE (Republicans and Democrats alike) are talking "regulation" so much today-greed got us here-and not just the greed of individual homeowners but of those banks who were trying to show "shareholder value" by making these silly and dangerous "debt instruments" that they themselves didn't understand.
Here's where I get some of my info from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_lending
http://finance.mapsofworld.com/mortgage/
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 9:54:27 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Blue, just a caution.
Don't use Wikipedia as your primary source for anything. People are able to go in and edit articles. I know of several instances where two "sides" have gone back and forth, first revising an article one direction, than another. In the process, pertinent facts often get dropped.
Wikipedia is a potential place to go for information, since it often has lots of links to other information. Just don't take anything written on that site as unbiased, because it is all to easy to create a biased article there.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 10:06:21 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 360
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Blue, just a caution.
Don't use Wikipedia as your primary source for anything. People are able to go in and edit articles. I know of several instances where two "sides" have gone back and forth, first revising an article one direction, than another. In the process, pertinent facts often get dropped.
Wikipedia is a potential place to go for information, since it often has lots of links to other information. Just don't take anything written on that site as unbiased, because it is all to easy to create a biased article there.
Oh I completely agree with you on that-Wikipedia is not even my primary source in many cases, but is a good place to research the facts on THIS issue (since they are pretty straightforward).
I think a lot of us have fixated on the "subprime" crisis as one of unpaid loans-and that's really only a very small part of the story-the banks (and people such as Mr. Greenspan, etc.) really owe a very BIG explanation for what they were up to when they cooked this whole mess up-and as Mr. Greenspan said yesterday, most of them knew the risks when they were acting irresponsibly, yet they chose to ignore those risks and WE are now paying for it.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 10:15:49 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7586
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Oh I completely agree with you on that-Wikipedia is not even my primary source in many cases, but is a good place to research the facts on THIS issue (since they are pretty straightforward).
I think a lot of us have fixated on the "subprime" crisis as one of unpaid loans-and that's really only a very small part of the story-the banks (and people such as Mr. Greenspan, etc.) really owe a very BIG explanation for what they were up to when they cooked this whole mess up-and as Mr. Greenspan said yesterday, most of them knew the risks when they were acting irresponsibly, yet they chose to ignore those risks and WE are now paying for it.
Interestingly, the current market panic seems related to the anticipation that Obama will almost certainly be President. Markets are anticipatory, and they are anticipating an administration that is bad for business:
Barack Obama has remained cool and confident amid the financial melt down, even as John McCain at times has been embarrassing, lurching from one proposal to the next. But while the polls are reflecting Obama's steady hand, the markets haven't. In fact, they're getting worse by the day as Obama's lead widens.
Most investors know the devil is in the details - and the details of Obama's economic plans are anything but reassuring.
Of course, the market turmoil is first a reflection of grim reality - the bursting of the housing bubble and the billions upon billions in writedowns and losses that have forced upon the hugely leveraged financial firms companies that had cranked big profits during the bubble years.
The resulting credit crunch is hitting Main Street harder than ever before. The country is headed for recession; the only question is: Just how low can the markets and economy go?
It could be a lot lower - it all depends on the policies of the next president.
And, as it looks increasingly likely that Obama will be that man, the markets are casting a vote of "no confidence."
This confirms a bit a trend I was beginning to suspect.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 10:44:07 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 360
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Oh I completely agree with you on that-Wikipedia is not even my primary source in many cases, but is a good place to research the facts on THIS issue (since they are pretty straightforward).
I think a lot of us have fixated on the "subprime" crisis as one of unpaid loans-and that's really only a very small part of the story-the banks (and people such as Mr. Greenspan, etc.) really owe a very BIG explanation for what they were up to when they cooked this whole mess up-and as Mr. Greenspan said yesterday, most of them knew the risks when they were acting irresponsibly, yet they chose to ignore those risks and WE are now paying for it.
Interestingly, the current market panic seems related to the anticipation that Obama will almost certainly be President. Markets are anticipatory, and they are anticipating an administration that is bad for business:
Barack Obama has remained cool and confident amid the financial melt down, even as John McCain at times has been embarrassing, lurching from one proposal to the next. But while the polls are reflecting Obama's steady hand, the markets haven't. In fact, they're getting worse by the day as Obama's lead widens.
Most investors know the devil is in the details - and the details of Obama's economic plans are anything but reassuring.
Of course, the market turmoil is first a reflection of grim reality - the bursting of the housing bubble and the billions upon billions in writedowns and losses that have forced upon the hugely leveraged financial firms companies that had cranked big profits during the bubble years.
The resulting credit crunch is hitting Main Street harder than ever before. The country is headed for recession; the only question is: Just how low can the markets and economy go?
It could be a lot lower - it all depends on the policies of the next president.
And, as it looks increasingly likely that Obama will be that man, the markets are casting a vote of "no confidence."
This confirms a bit a trend I was beginning to suspect.
Come on now Jack, your own article also states that confidence is no better for Mr. McCain. IF that's the case, it's really disingenuous to attribute stock market fluctuation to either candidate (and I'm not saying YOU did that, but the article author definitely did try to do so)-to do so implies that one or the other would inspire a greater amount of confidence and stabilize the markets-and the article makes it clear that NO ONE really feels that way.
To be fair, what I do like about the article is that it DOES make the point (unintentionally it appears) that the results of the economy-good or bad-cannot be solely laid at the feet of the president. Economic policies are much more far reaching than one man-Mr. Obama's tax policies would be enacted (if they were) by a Congress, much the same as Mr. McCain's would be. The markets would be overseen by many advisors - and in this case, all of those advisors really let us all down.
For too long, we have given too much credit and too much blame to a small group of people for economic policies. It's really time to hold ALL levels of government accountable for the policies they make "on our behalf".
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 10:48:29 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Sorta like in "The Godfather" when Marlon Brando says "make him an offer he can't refuse."
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I have to agree with you in that the banks were not 'forced' to make the loans. They were blackmailed into making them. They were pressured into making them. They were hauled into congress and threatened if they did NOT make them. But, in the end, they were not 'forced'.
They could have stood up against the Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus. They could have ignored the picketing by ACORN. They could have told congress that they refused to make bad loans in bad neighborhoods and just lived with the bad press from the left.
Liberals never cease to amaze me. They march in the streets to pressure banks. They browbeat bank executives in hearing after hearing. They accuse the banks of racism if they don't make the idiotic loan. And, then, when the banks get into trouble doing EXACTLY WHAT THE LEFT WANTED, they are called stupid and the Libs attack them for buckling to the libs own pressure. Go figure!
The one thing that Liberals can be counted on to do is to never take any responsibility for their actions. You can ALWAYS count on that!
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
The loans were first pushed in the community reinvestment act by Jimmy Carter. President Clinton expaned the number of sub prime loans and forced banks to issue 1 Trillion in sub prime loans. George Bush, John McCain, Allen Greenspan and several others tried to push through regulation for Fannie Mae but they were stopped. NO NO NO NO. No one FORCED banks to give bad loans. No one forced banks to drop just about every underwriting standard they ever had. I don't know where all this rot about the CRA got started but it's a very bad scapegoat.
quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave out over a million in campaign donations to democrat politicians. Obama was given the second highest amount. Fanne and Freddie were equal opportunity donators and Obama didn't even make the top 10 if I remember correctly.
I watched the video you linked. The CRA is just not to blame, it ALLOWED the banks to do what they did but did not force them. They made the choice, not the legislators. Yes, the legislators made it easier for them by relaxing regulations and standards which is the mantra of free marketers everywhere. Yeah. Look where it got us.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 11:16:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I have to agree with you in that the banks were not 'forced' to make the loans. They were blackmailed into making them. They were pressured into making them. They were hauled into congress and threatened if they did NOT make them. But, in the end, they were not 'forced'.
That is exactly what happened.
Thanks for this thread. It's about time someone began to tell the truth to the American Public that is blindly following the liberal media's made up lies.
quote:
They could have stood up against the Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus. They could have ignored the picketing by ACORN. They could have told congress that they refused to make bad loans in bad neighborhoods and just lived with the bad press from the left.
Liberals never cease to amaze me. They march in the streets to pressure banks. They browbeat bank executives in hearing after hearing. They accuse the banks of racism if they don't make the idiotic loan. And, then, when the banks get into trouble doing EXACTLY WHAT THE LEFT WANTED, they are called stupid and the Libs attack them for buckling to the libs own pressure. Go figure!
The one thing that Liberals can be counted on to do is to never take any responsibility for their actions. You can ALWAYS count on that!
PREACH IT!!!
The truth IS the truth. It never changes!!!!!
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 12:02:40 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Blue, thanks for providing the info. Even if subprimes didn't cause the mess,didn't they add a lot to what occured? Are you saying that reps added to our mess because they didn't want to regulate wall street? I have even heard (I can't find a source that I know to be 100% credible) that Obama's law firm even sued banks that didn't give out subprimes. Don't his ties to FM cause great concern? Blue, everyone else here seems to be pretty clear about who they are and aren't supporting. What about you? Just outa curiosity.
JH, I wouldn't be surprised if the markets were reacting to Obama's stong likelihood of being pres but I need more proof than the Post's opinion.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 12:29:41 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 360
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
Blue, thanks for providing the info. Even if subprimes didn't cause the mess,didn't they add a lot to what occured? Are you saying that reps added to our mess because they didn't want to regulate wall street? I have even heard (I can't find a source that I know to be 100% credible) that Obama's law firm even sued banks that didn't give out subprimes. Don't his ties to FM cause great concern? Blue, everyone else here seems to be pretty clear about who they are and aren't supporting. What about you? Just outa curiosity.
JH, I wouldn't be surprised if the markets were reacting to Obama's stong likelihood of being pres but I need more proof than the Post's opinion.
Oh, without a doubt they have a hand in what happened-they added the "tinder" to the fire that has become this credit crisis.
The biggest issue that NO ONE is talking about is what this is exposing relative to our economy in general, namely:
1. A large majority of our economy - institutional and consumer - is based upon credit, not real money. Businesses operate on credit, consumers buy groceries with credit. With credit unavailable, we are seeing our economy go into paralysis-that should NOT be the case. Businesses should be operating from a cash position instead of making payroll through revolving lines of credit (but almost every Fortune 500 company does the latter). Rare is the company or the individual you will find today who has no debt-so much so that a company will advertise that fact if it's true. THAT is a big ingredient in the recipe for the disaster we are suffering today.
2. "Leverage" should be used to move a heavy object, not fund major corporate moves. Back to the credit of above, what we are essentially seeing is a huge "margin call" on the U.S. economy. If you are familiar with the stock world, you are familiar with the concept of a margin call. "Buying on margin" allows you to purchase much more stock by putting down a very small amount of up front money. If you win, you win BIG, if you lose, you lose big. Our economy is in the "lose big" stage right now-and it's about the use of "leverage" and "margin" in the form of "debt backed securities" to leverage (turn a little money into a lot of money out of thin air) "growth" out of financial institutions. We lost out, now we have to pay the piper-only most of the people who lost didn't even know that they were playing the game.
To the question of who I support-I may know that the day I show up at the voting booth. I'm praying and trusting my vote to the Lord and while I have a way I'm leaning, I hope He confirms that for me. To the question of past ties-if I look at it honestly and objectively, both candidates have past ties that trouble me some, that's all the more reason why I must trust my vote to the Lord. I guess I do hope that all sides are looking at the picture objectively, not from a preconceived notion of right or wrong based upon partisan affiliation.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 1:05:41 PM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Obama is number two. Please take note that a lot of these donations for all the members are from individual employees, not the company per se. Obama received very little from the PAC. And besides, while I may not agree with it, this is common practice, as evidenced from the very long list of recipients.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 1:06:57 PM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
They were blackmailed into making them. They were pressured into making them. They were hauled into congress and threatened if they did NOT make them. You don't have to blackmail greedy people to do what the banks did. Can you show me where they were pressured to eliminate underwriting standards? It didn't happen.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/24/2008 1:14:56 PM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Mr. Greenspan said yesterday, most of them knew the risks when they were acting irresponsibly, yet they chose to ignore those risks and WE are now paying for it. Yes, I watched his entire testimony and he was referring to the BANKS CHOOSING to ignore the risks. He was also SHOCKED, SHOCKED that the markets didn't self-regulate.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 8:16:47 AM
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willfs
Posts: 348
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Yes but what if McCain chose several people from banks who were making those loans as his advisers. Obama did just that with some former Fannie Mae people. There seems to be too many red flags raised about Obama. Not that he is a terrorist or doesn't love his country, but that he is wrong when it comes to the economy. I was watching one of his advertisements where he criticized the Republicans for our current tax code. Then he said that we have now seen it doesn't work. Is he saying that our tax code led to our economic disaster? When Bush put in his tax cuts the GDP rose at the highest rate in twenty years. We had a great economy for several years after this. It was the housing bubble that hurt us. Obama wants to overtax the richest five percent so he can give tax breaks to everyone else, even those who dont pay taxes. This is just wrong. I think everyone should pay the same percentage. Just because somone makes more doesn't me they should pay a higher percentage. It's their money. It would be nice if they gave it to those who need it but we can't force them. The government doesn't own us, we own the government. I make near poverty level wages and Obama's tax ideas still seem just plain wrong. The republicans are the party that pushes a flatter tax rate that isn't lopsided progressive and definitely not regressive. Obama also said that trickle down economics doesn't work. Does he understand how the economy works? If all of a sudden the government gives back a ton of money to anyone, even the rich; as those people spend, invest, or save it they will do something to help others gain more wealth and so on and so on. The dems want to overtax the rich to pay for their spending plans and tax cuts to the rest of the country. The reps argue that we all pay even when the rich have to pay more so why not lower the taxes on everyone.... some of them go on to talk about cutting spending but sadly few reps actually cut government spending nowadays.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 8:28:25 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Obama seems to be the last person to be president in this economy. Where am I wrong?
You are not wrong.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 9:51:32 AM
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gigigirrl
Posts: 83
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
NO NO NO NO. No one FORCED banks to give bad loans.
quote:
greedy people
You are running a company - you are told these are the new rules. If you don't follow the new rules. Your company will be fined. This will hurt your bottom line, and be bad for your employees and stock holders. Your company will be seen as racist. You don't think you are being racist. Its just bad business to loan to people who are more risky. But the bad publicity will hurt your company even more. So you start loaning the money. I am sure once you start loaning it - you start getting tempted by all that money. Are there greedy people in banking - sure like there are greedy people everywhere. Are there people who are cautious and are not necessarily looking towards the almighty dollar - I am sure. But the idea of standing against all the banks- and not holding those in the government who encouraged loans to the risky by passing laws to fine those who did not give loans is ridiculous.
Lets look at your word force.
Here is the definition of force. 1a : strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power 1b: moral or mental strength 2: military strength 3: violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing 4: an agency or influence that if applied to a free body results chiefly in an acceleration of the body and sometimes in elastic deformation and other effects b: any of the natural influences.
The # 1a meaning is a good example of congress. When we say force we often think of the #3 meaning. Not 1a. But meaning 1a is forcing.
Otherwise you wouldn't think twice if you were speeding and saw the police. They will give you a fine. Their presence forces you to to remember that you need to slow down. They are exerting their power to fine you. Now you can ignore it - and pay the consequences. But you don't want to let the fine hurt your families budget. So you slow down. Sound familiar.
< Message edited by gigigirrl -- 10/29/2008 10:00:33 AM >
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 10:50:47 AM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
You are running a company - you are told these are the new rules. If you don't follow the new rules. Your company will be fined. This will hurt your bottom line, and be bad for your employees and stock holders. Your company will be seen as racist. One more time - I know lots of lenders - those rules DID NOT include virtually eliminating underwriting and verification of employment and income. DID NOT. Again that is the banks twisting what they did so you'll feel sorry for their greediness. Don't be fooled by them.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 10:55:28 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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What about the people who found transportation and went into the lenders office KNOWING they didn't have a job and just WANTING a house or loan. Or not even caring enough about the one they were requesting a loan from to sit down at home and see if they could "afford" the loan?
Were these people not "greedy" as well? Do we need to find a way to "regulate" those people?
What about the greedy contractors who build those people a home? Should we regulate them?
What about the real estate salesman who didn't give a toot about the person they were encouraging to buy a home when they knew the home was outside the unemployed person's price range? or just a little larger than was resonable for a worker at a mill?
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 11:03:17 AM
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relady
Posts: 1211
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
What about the people who found transportation and went into the lenders office KNOWING they didn't have a job and just WANTING a house or loan. One more time, for the ones who don't get it....it is the lender's responsibility to do the underwriting and verify the employment. If someone is unemployed and proper underwriting is employed they won't get a loan. It is also illegal to lie on the loan application - that is the responsibility of the borrower and if they did lie, then they should be prosecuted under the law. Although once again, just a little underwriting would have caught such lies. Banks just didn't care.
quote:
What about the real estate salesman who didn't give a toot about the person they were encouraging to buy a home when they knew the home was outside the unemployed person's price range? This may be a little different in some places, but I don't take people out shopping (more than once) until I know they are preapproved by a bank (and now it has to be a lender I personally trust) for a particular price range and then I show them homes within that price range. I generally do not know all that much about their money situation since it is THE BANK'S JOB to figure that out and let me know what they qualify for and what I need to write into the contract. If I get a buyer that wants to consistently look at properties above their approved price range, I send them back to their lender for another preapproval.
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RE: Obama seems to be the last person to be president i... - 10/29/2008 9:04:34 PM
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willfs
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