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Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/13/2008 4:41:38 PM
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WormHeart
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Apparently non-violent protests can put you on a terrorist list.
quote:
"This term terrorist is a really serious accusation," Sister Ardeth, a nun for 54 years, told The Washington Times on Thursday in the first interview that the women have given since being informed they were among 53 people added to a terrorist watch list in conjunction with an extensive Maryland surveillance effort of antiwar activists.
"There is no way that we ever want to be identified as terrorists. We are nonviolent. We are faith-based," she said.
Protesting nuns branded terrorists
Thoughts?
WormHeart
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Bless every Dane at heart
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/13/2008 5:10:16 PM
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Zhi
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Well, on the one hand it seems kind of absurd, but reading the article, they seem to have a record of successfully breaking into nuclear missile silos (and debateably attempting to sabotage them, as human blood is technically a biohazard). I can kind of see why that might be considered a little worrisome. So I can see why the government might want to keep an eye on them, from that standpoint...
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/13/2008 8:09:51 PM
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aslouie
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I have to be honest, when I first read the thread title, I thought it's somewhat referencing to Rosie O' Donnell's infamous, "fundamentalist-Christians-are-as-bad-as-Al Qaeda" comments... or to put it more relevantly, a scene out of "An American Carol!" 
But then again, it almost reminds me of this possible double standards when it comes to which sort of "radical Christian (terrorists)" are legitimate in the mainstream media's eyes, i.e. Rev. Jeremiah Wright vs. Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson (especially with the immediate, post-9-11 comments), or perhaps Obama supporter Fr. Michael Pflager vs. homophobe spotlight hog, Pastor Fred Phelps!!
*Maybe I should jump start a stand-alone thread concerning the latter comment(s)! 
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 12:27:06 AM
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leonfigg3
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It has always struck me a little odd how religious people who are into anti-war protests could be so non-so-peaceful in their means of protest. Maybe I will understand their logic as soon as I read up more on Bonhoeffer.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 8:31:30 AM
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mapachito13
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Non-violent? Breaking and entering on federal land is not non-violent? I am sure these ladies congregation do not back their brand of protest! These women don't deserve the title nun.
Carrying signs outside the fence is non-violent and lawful protest. They'll have to travel by car now!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 10:11:58 AM
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rcjames
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Folks who break into restricted areas cannot suppose that being of the "Faith" will give them cover.
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..........
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 10:24:45 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Non-violent? Breaking and entering on federal land is not non-violent? I am sure these ladies congregation do not back their brand of protest! These women don't deserve the title nun.
Carrying signs outside the fence is non-violent and lawful protest. They'll have to travel by car now!
Please note that they did not commit a violent crime; by definition, a violent crime is a crime against a person. They committed a crime against property.
I think there's a little too much paranoia here. When I was 14, my bus was pelted with eggs by two neighborhood kids. Are they on the no-fly list?
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 10:38:40 AM
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Zhi
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They... broke... into... a... NUCLEAR MISSILE SILO. Then they spread around material that constitutes a biohazard.
Letting people break into a nuclear missile silo and not be watched based on the fact that they say they're "non-violent" is a terrible idea. They could be lying. They could change their minds.
They're lucky they weren't shot.
Also, arson is a crime against property that is classified as a "violent crime" so your assertion is not strictly true. In their case, flinging around potentially infectious human bodily fluids is generally classified as assault.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 1:04:12 PM
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backrowbaptist
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These so-called nuns don't serve God, they serve their own egos and worship the attention they receive. If they put the time and energy they spend vandalizing property and manipulating the media into serving the families of the soldiers killed defending their right to their lame 'protests', I'd be impressed.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 2:44:38 PM
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tinydancer2
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At 1st I was already taking sides with the nuns thinking they were just protesters but they did act it out after 9/11 and thingsare way more sensitive because of homeland security and etc and their protesting ways t fill baby bottes with their own blood plus transpassing also...is not regular peaceful protesting ways..as they were sentenced also.
We are in a war against terrorism that I do know but is kind of excessive to include those 2 in a list with others "classic" terrorists also..they may have degrees of terrorists acts in those official lists..I suppose..
Well, I already knew as fact some in clergy RC taking sides, protesting, participating in issues, mostly reggarding lands and those without lands, strong participation in their communities and the poor realities etc but never seen anything like that kind of protesting before...but things do differ reggarding issues inside different cultures as to feel strongly against something and individual choice to come up with expressing that...
To me that is plain weird and gross ways, those nuns choose to protest their causes. I don't find them "classic terrorists" but my list does not count for anything..is not an official list, of course.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 2:58:30 PM
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WormHeart
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Oh, of course they should be watched and if a guard had shot them, he would probably be within his right.
I was just wondering about the "terrorist" label.
I mean, terrorist has a definition - it's not just a buzzword for people we dont like. Terrorists are terrorists because they use terror as a weapon against a civilian population to get what they want. Al Quada is terrorists, not because they attack US interests, but because they target civilians. IRA were terrorists, not because they attacked British military personel, but because they places bombs in stores.
A roadside bomb against a military convoy is not a terrorist attack. A bomb in a schoolbus is.
Otherwise terrorist becomes just another word for enemy.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 3:08:52 PM
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Zhi
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Mmm. It says they're on a watch list, it doesn't really say the specifics of what the watch list says about them (though they speculate they're labeled as terrorists).
You shouldn't have to necessarily be labeled a terrorist to be on a watch list... if you do have to be labeled a terrorist to be on a watch list, then they need to fix the watch list.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 4:28:24 PM
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tinydancer2
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quote:
I was just wondering about the "terrorist" label.
Yep I do understand the weight of strong wording and etc...I do wonder about other labels being profusely used around also...as a foregneir and having different perceptions etc plus not into politics etc I do find myself trying to make sense of some labels maybe directed at me etc plus when you experienced dictatorship regime, in my case right wing you do have memories etc to use wordings not so lightly or at least react to it much different of those who always lived in democratic free everything societies etc and even among democratic societies views are different and etc
"You shouldn't have to necessarily be labeled a terrorist to be on a watch list... if you do have to be labeled a terrorist to be on a watch list, then they need to fix the watch list. "
Yes, I do think those watch lists may carry different nomeclature and degrees of activities of those whose names are on it..
It is "embarrassing" to have those nuns classified as really terrorist in the "true" sense of it...
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 6:05:19 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
They... broke... into... a... NUCLEAR MISSILE SILO. Then they spread around material that constitutes a biohazard.
Letting people break into a nuclear missile silo and not be watched based on the fact that they say they're "non-violent" is a terrible idea. They could be lying. They could change their minds.
Your point? People break into petroleum refineries, which are arguably just as dangerous. They don't wind up on terrorist watch lists.
quote:
They're lucky they weren't shot.
True. Also note that they didn't need to be shot.
quote:
Also, arson is a crime against property that is classified as a "violent crime" so your assertion is not strictly true. In their case, flinging around potentially infectious human bodily fluids is generally classified as assault.
By definition, assault is a crime against a person. Nobody was assaulted.
This really strikes me as the same kind of domestic warrantless spying that the CIA did back during Vietnam.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 7:10:45 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
They... broke... into... a... NUCLEAR MISSILE SILO. Then they spread around material that constitutes a biohazard.
Letting people break into a nuclear missile silo and not be watched based on the fact that they say they're "non-violent" is a terrible idea. They could be lying. They could change their minds.
Your point? People break into petroleum refineries, which are arguably just as dangerous. They don't wind up on terrorist watch lists.
YOUR point?? If you don' see the difference between a nuclear missle silo and an oil refinery, and think they are equally dangerous, good luck....
Personally, I think those breaking into oil refineries should be on a watch list right up until they're sent to prison. Our oil supply is vital to our security and infrastructure.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 7:19:57 PM
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mapachito13
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In this case I think they are just going to have their pictures posted at every government facility just like 7-11 posts pictures of people that rob their stores. These nuns forget the old saying about what happens when you mess with the bull! 
There are other manners of protesting that will get you as much publicity without the need to break and enter on federal land. The first amendment doesn't cover this type of speech.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/14/2008 8:21:54 PM
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Zhi
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quote:
Your point? People break into petroleum refineries, which are arguably just as dangerous. They don't wind up on terrorist watch lists.
Actually people who break into petroleum refineries to protest and/or vandalize are generally labeled "eco-terrorists" and I would be very very surprised if they were not on a watch list.
quote:
True. Also note that they didn't need to be shot.
Well, no, but I'm just noting my surprise from experience. I have had a coworker end up with guns pointed at his head because he forgot his punch-in passcode (he did have his card) to get into a government facility... and this facility didn't even have nukes. That I know of. *cough*
quote:
By definition, assault is a crime against a person. Nobody was assaulted.
If there are people in the area who could be infected by a biohazard like human blood, then it would be considered assault.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/15/2008 10:38:58 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
Having survived 12 years of Catholic school I can vouch for the fact that most nuns are indeed terrorists. I was scared to death of them! 
Put out your hands! Now where did I put that ruler?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/16/2008 3:06:07 PM
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bravjim
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I hate to disagree, but this is going too far. They served their time for the so called "biohazard" incident, which I still don't call an act of terrorism. That incident took place in Colorado, and they are being labeled terrorists by Maryland state police. An act of terrorism is violence against civilians in order to create an atmosphere of fear. They are not creating an atmosphere of fear with an act like that, nor were they acting against civilians. This is abuse of power by the state of Maryland, and for the first time I can see liberals point of view how they are trying to take away an American's freedom by labeling them something they are not. What's next, are they going to bug their phones? Listen in on international calls from the pope? This is a ridiculous action by law enforcement, and makes them the joke.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/16/2008 3:34:47 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1500
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quote:
I hate to disagree, but this is going too far. They served their time for the so called "biohazard" incident, which I still don't call an act of terrorism. That incident took place in Colorado, and they are being labeled terrorists by Maryland state police. An act of terrorism is violence against civilians in order to create an atmosphere of fear. They are not creating an atmosphere of fear with an act like that, nor were they acting against civilians. This is abuse of power by the state of Maryland, and for the first time I can see liberals point of view how they are trying to take away an American's freedom by labeling them something they are not. What's next, are they going to bug their phones? Listen in on international calls from the pope? This is a ridiculous action by law enforcement, and makes them the joke.
Again, as far as law enforcement will say, they're merely on a "watch list". As far as I can tell, it's only the nuns and media sensationalists who are throwing around the word "terrorist".
Do you not think it a good idea to keep an eye on people who have decided to make a habit (pun not intended) of breaking into nuclear missile facilities?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Nuns branded as terrorists - 10/18/2008 5:12:56 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
I hate to disagree, but this is going too far. They served their time for the so called "biohazard" incident, which I still don't call an act of terrorism. That incident took place in Colorado, and they are being labeled terrorists by Maryland state police. An act of terrorism is violence against civilians in order to create an atmosphere of fear. They are not creating an atmosphere of fear with an act like that, nor were they acting against civilians. This is abuse of power by the state of Maryland, and for the first time I can see liberals point of view how they are trying to take away an American's freedom by labeling them something they are not. What's next, are they going to bug their phones? Listen in on international calls from the pope? This is a ridiculous action by law enforcement, and makes them the joke.
Again, as far as law enforcement will say, they're merely on a "watch list". As far as I can tell, it's only the nuns and media sensationalists who are throwing around the word "terrorist".
Do you not think it a good idea to keep an eye on people who have decided to make a habit (pun not intended) of breaking into nuclear missile facilities?
You make a lot of sense, zhi. The nuns are playing the media, and the media is all too willing to play along.
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