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Missing out on Integrity - 10/15/2008 9:45:40 PM
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Cloak
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One of my favourite verses in the Bible is:
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23).
What bewilders me and even ticks me off is a lack of a quality which I find Very vital to our Christian walk and that is Integrity.
Why do you think Integrity is Not mentioned even though it has a great impact on our human soul?
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/15/2008 10:45:49 PM
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ffbruce
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That's a very good point.
I guess I'm thinking that integrity is a given if the other fruit (fruits?) are present in the life of the believer.
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/15/2008 10:47:16 PM
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creationtalk
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I'm not sure that integrity is missing. Integrity is firm adherence to a moral code...to a way of behaving. It also means the state of being complete or undivided, or in an unimpaired condition. The word comes from the Greek word meaning "unity." The word translated "faith" or "faithful" or "faithfulness" is also translated "true" which means steadfast, loyal, honest, just. Faithful means loyal, constant, staunch, resolute. Loyal means firm adherence to promises or in observance of duty or implies a faithfulness that is steadfast in the face of any temptation to renounce, desert, or betray. Resolute means firm determination to adhere to a cause or purpose. Honesty means a fairness and straightforwardness of conduct, uprightness of conduct or action, integrity.
Look at the excerpt of a commentary on the verse:
http://versebyversecommentary.com/2000/05/08/galatians-522/
quote:
The Spirit-filled believer always manifests a unity of nine character qualities. He does not love at the exclusion of inner peace. He carries all of these qualities when he is Spirit filled. It is possible to practice two or three fruit of the Spirit but the Spirit-filled believer produces all of them. Carnal Christians can produce some of these qualities but only a Spirit-filled believer produces all of them.
Integrity is synonymous with honesty. But it also takes self-control- the trait of resolutely controlling your own behavior. As I see it, integrity is the name that we give to the PACKAGE of fruits of the spirit.
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/16/2008 12:29:21 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
One of my favourite verses in the Bible is:
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23).
What bewilders me and even ticks me off is a lack of a quality which I find Very vital to our Christian walk and that is Integrity.
Why do you think Integrity is Not mentioned even though it has a great impact on our human soul?
Integrity is completeness or the state of being whole. Psalm 15 tells us:
O Lord, who may abide in Thy tent?
Who may dwell on Thy holy hill?
He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness,
And speaks truth in his heart. (v 1-2)
Perhaps it is not what we do but who we are. Integrity has alot to do with truth and those who are His walk in truth.
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/17/2008 7:40:52 AM
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Cloak
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Thanks folks for your replies!
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/17/2008 5:29:46 PM
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Bluethread
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I'm not sure adding another subjective term to the list would be of much help. The difficulty I find with using the fruit of the spirit as defined here as the sole set of requirements for proper living is that they are so subjective. Love can be defined as emotionalism, joy as giddiness, peace as pacificism, etc. Now, general subjective guidelines are indeed useful. However, without a clear objective moral code to provide context, things such as integrity are in the eye of the beholder. One man's integrity can be viewed by another as contentious and inflexable.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/21/2008 6:21:05 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Precisely my point. What is doing the right thing? This to is a very simplified and ill defined concept.
What do you mean? Please elaborate or give an example!
We have a multitude of threads here with men of integrity disagreeing on what the right thing to do is. Therefore, to say integrity is doing the right thing does not adequantly define the term integrity, if it is an objective term. When the Scriptures say, "You shall not steal." that is an objective standard. One can say that anyone who does not steal has some degree of integrity. However, we could not say they all have integrity of character. Some of these might also be murderers. So, the murderer can aaccuse to theif of having no integrity and the theif can accuse the murderer of the same. Therefore, integrity is a subjective impression and not an objective standard.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/21/2008 9:09:15 PM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Precisely my point. What is doing the right thing? This to is a very simplified and ill defined concept.
What do you mean? Please elaborate or give an example!
We have a multitude of threads here with men of integrity disagreeing on what the right thing to do is. Therefore, to say integrity is doing the right thing does not adequantly define the term integrity, if it is an objective term. When the Scriptures say, "You shall not steal." that is an objective standard. One can say that anyone who does not steal has some degree of integrity. However, we could not say they all have integrity of character. Some of these might also be murderers. So, the murderer can aaccuse to theif of having no integrity and the theif can accuse the murderer of the same. Therefore, integrity is a subjective impression and not an objective standard.
Well to me Bluethread, as a Christian doing the right thing is supposed to be doing the right thing from a Christian perspective. That means asking the pivotal question: What is a true Christian is supposed to do in such a situation.
As Christians, we should not get confused and remember that The Holy Bible is our measure of Standards when it comes to integrity.
It's really that simple!
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/22/2008 4:42:15 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
One of my favourite verses in the Bible is:
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23).....
Why do you think Integrity is Not mentioned even though it has a great impact on our human soul?
I do believe that goodness covers integrity most completely.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/22/2008 6:04:48 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Integrity is completeness or the state of being whole. Psalm 15 tells us:
O Lord, who may abide in Thy tent?
Who may dwell on Thy holy hill?
He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness,
And speaks truth in his heart. (v 1-2)
Perhaps it is not what we do but who we are. Integrity has alot to do with truth and those who are His walk in truth.
I think you are missing what integrity is. So I've repeated what I wrote earlier although I'm not saying my words have truly captured what integrity is. But I think we're wrong to narrow it down to something like doing the right thing. It is way bigger than that.
Perhaps someone else can expand on what I'm failing to communicate and which I think deserves a more adequate explanation. Cloak, you've asked a very good question and one I think we need to wrestle with.  LL
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/22/2008 6:32:10 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
Well to me Bluethread, as a Christian doing the right thing is supposed to be doing the right thing from a Christian perspective. That means asking the pivotal question: What is a true Christian is supposed to do in such a situation.
As Christians, we should not get confused and remember that The Holy Bible is our measure of Standards when it comes to integrity.
It's really that simple!
Empasis Mine
If by this you mean every book from Genesis through the Revelation, I would agree that is where we find the objective standards with subjective clarification.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/22/2008 6:45:35 PM
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Liveloved
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When Jesus spoke of your eye being single in Matthew 6 and Luke 11, He is speaking of that oneness, unity, an integrated, whole person. . . a person of integrity. I think if we look at these passages we will come closer to what integrity is really all about.
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/22/2008 10:17:43 PM
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creationtalk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
Awesome answers, thanks folks!
Just an idea that dawned on me lately....Love covers all. Just think about it for a minute: when you have love in your heart, automatically you have all the rest of the fruits and that includes integrity.
So the fruit Love is foundational to all the rest of the fruits. 
Of course, that is why Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and the second is to Love your neighbor as yourself, because in these two commandments is the fulfillment of the law. If you are loving your neighbor, you will not do anything to harm him. Loving God brings peace of mind, faithfulness....
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/23/2008 6:59:10 AM
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Cloak
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Good point creationtalk, thank you!
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/23/2008 8:31:51 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
One of my favourite verses in the Bible is:
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23).
What bewilders me and even ticks me off is a lack of a quality which I find Very vital to our Christian walk and that is Integrity.
Why do you think Integrity is Not mentioned even though it has a great impact on our human soul? Please note that the qualities listed in these verses are all relational, while integrity is more abstract. And, for the sake of argument let me suggest a biblical definition of integrity is "truth in the innermost parts."
Please consider this as well:
Mar 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
Mar 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Mar 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Mar 12:31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
The 2 commandments Jesus said were foremost are both relational; how to relate to God and how to relate to man. Again, nothing abstrtact.
Abstract qualities, while important, are not given as much "shelf space" in scripture as the relational aspects because biblical Hebrew culture was very hands-on relational compared to pagan Greek culture which was much more abstract.
But that does not mean integrity was not important. It was seen as a prerequisite to proper relational obedience:
Gen 20:4 Now Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a nation, even though blameless?
Gen 20:5 "Did he not himself say to me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this."
Gen 20:6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, and I also kept you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
Psa 15:1 A Psalm of David. O LORD, who may abide in Your tent? Who may dwell on Your holy hill?
Psa 15:2 He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness, And speaks truth in his heart.
Psa 15:3 He does not slander with his tongue, Nor does evil to his neighbor, Nor takes up a reproach against his friend;
Psa 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
1Ki 9:4 "As for you, if you will walk before Me as your father David walked, in integrity of heart and uprightness, doing according to all that I have commanded you and will keep My statutes and My ordinances,
1Ki 9:5 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, just as I promised to your father David, saying, 'You shall not lack a man on the throne of Israel.'
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/23/2008 10:07:53 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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. . . and, of course, Dave used the Scripture that is the first part of the Shema, which has been vocalized, prayed, taught, thought through for many, many centuries. I don't know when the Shema was first prayed publicly by many as a prayer and statement of our right-standing before God, but it certainly contains within it integretous living.
Oh, yes -- and I really enjoyed Creationtalk's personal answer.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 10/29/2008 10:07:01 AM
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dduuggyy
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The fruits of the Spirit are all actions of the spirit that is within for we there are two spirits: spirital and evil. There are fruits of the evil spirit as well and you see them all the time as well and unfortunately at times, more so than the the spirital. Integrity is a result of the spirit within or which ever one you choose to support your actions. Your Character is derived on what you do when no one is looking but Christ sees all and as I speak to others, I also speak to myself. Blessings
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RE: Missing out on Integrity - 11/7/2008 6:58:31 AM
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lightbeamrider
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Integrity is that which cannot be taken away from outside sources but can only be forfeited from within. Esau forfeited integrity when he sold his birthright for a single meal. David forfeited integrity when he committed adultery with Bathsheba and subsequently had Uriah murdered. Job maintained integrity in spite of everything thrown at him in the first two chapters of that book. Job's wife...''Do u still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!'' Job...''Shall we indeed accept goodness from God and not accept adversity?''
I remember that old song Honky Tonk Angels...as it relates to integrity.
It was not God who made honky tonk angels
Like you wrote in the words of your song
Too many times married men think they're still single
which has caused lot's of good girls to go wrong.
Sounds like this kind of ''reasoning'' is the honky tonk angel is following the example of Esau and not that of Job. In the process the honky tonk angel forfeits integrity by reducing herself to the level of her cheating husband. While her actions are certainly understandable, they are not acceptable because the Christian puts God first and not the husband. The Christian (ideally) will maintain integrity in spite of outside sources. In this case basically the cheating husband brought out in the wife something already there. The person writing these lyrics blames the cheating husband for causing her to act as she did. Integrity says otherwise. Integrity says Naked i came into this world and naked i leave. The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Integrity clings to God in spite of outside circumstances.
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