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Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 5:54:51 AM
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Little_1
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What is the difference between God's discipline and God's wrath?
Please give Biblical examples where possible to differentiate.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 8:30:49 AM
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LivingParadox
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I think God's wrath is when God knows the person is unredeemable -- not a choice God has made but God knows their heart. God basically says "times up".
Discipline, although it can sometimes feels like wrath is designed to bring up back, home.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 11:40:11 AM
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stellaluna
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Most simply, I think discipline is for God's children and wrath is for those who refuse to repent.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 1:03:32 PM
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LCannon
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Believe-Wrath/recognition/responsibility component“[you can be] freed from the arrogance that enslaves you [and] come into His obedience resulting in purification and Eternal Life. For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of is Eternal Life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 3:22,23
Confess-Discipline/confession/conviction component-“[His message] is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching that if you confess [obedience to] Jesus as Lord with your mouth and you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with his mouth he confesses resulting in [obedience].” Romans 10:8-10
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 1:24:38 PM
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colliefan
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1 Thess 1:9 - 10 (ESV) 9For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Heb 12:6 - 11 (ESV) 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” 7It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
9Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 2:17:33 PM
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Little_1
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Thank you guys.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/25/2008 5:12:00 PM
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Giulia
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Sometimes it's a combination of the two which corrects. Like with my grandchildren. They know there are times to be serious and quiet and other times to play. If they start to play around while I am trying to worship they feel the sting of my wrath. If they use their self control, which I have directed them to use; that is discipline. Much the same with God, in my experience. I do feel the wrath of God if I am heading down a road which has not been prescribed by Him. I also feel He is disciplining when my self control is strengthened in practising and remaining focused on Him and His things.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 10/27/2008 10:07:18 AM
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growingseed
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God's discipline can be painful and yet without it we can not become Christlike, what is that which we strife for and refuse the road that leads us there? We believe that Jesus is who he says he is the Son of God in the flesh. When we move forward in understanding and obedience and will listen and then do what we are asked to do which really is the basic foundation in coming to the Lord is that we will be shapened into the likeness of Jesus. Though we are weak in nature but are learning to trust more on the Holy Spirit to teach us that which we lack, this is called growing, and grace allows us blessing, being disciplined in love to be Christ like.
When we act has though we are more righteous then we really are and use the name of the Lord as a platform to teach man made ways and except them as the way, then we will experience the wrath of God, the gospels teach the woe's of the Pharisees, which is what those who travel that road of blindness of heart will experience.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/2/2008 2:29:14 PM
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SomeFineDay
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I feel God's leading most of the time, discipline when I don't listen to the leading and wrath (only in my life a few times) when I am absolutely deciding to go my own way. However, that has only happened a few times, but to me it was unmistakable, kinda like there was a line that I could not cross, and I did feel God's anger. It was not a place where I wanted to be so it definately something that always led to repentance.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/3/2008 8:41:50 AM
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psende
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
What is the difference between God's discipline and God's wrath?
Discipline = spanking "For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Heb 12:11)
Wrath = beating "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)
The difference lies in purpose and in severity.
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"This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/3/2008 2:59:59 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Please forgive me, but I strongly disagree with the idea that discipline is equal to spanking. Very strongly. Discipline in parenting is not spanking, and neither does G-d equate discipline with spanking.
I am constantly disciplined by G-d. He constantly both shows me the way to "walk" and reprimands me for past actions and/or actions I intend to do. Never has He "spanked" me since I became His.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/3/2008 6:29:05 PM
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psende
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Please forgive me, but I strongly disagree with the idea that discipline is equal to spanking. Very strongly. Discipline in parenting is not spanking, and neither does G-d equate discipline with spanking.
I am constantly disciplined by G-d. He constantly both shows me the way to "walk" and reprimands me for past actions and/or actions I intend to do. Never has He "spanked" me since I became His.
You are forgiven. I know there is a wide range of opinions concerning spanking. It sounds to me that you lean towards the opinion that spanking and beating are equivilants (forgive me for jumping to wrong conclusions, if I have). Perhaps that comes from your personal experience with "spanking."
My personal experience with spanking, on a human level, is that it made me a better and more respectful son, as it did my own three sons. (My second son did better with gentler redirection.)
But consider; "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Prov 23:13-14)
That sound a little bit like corporal punishment, doesn't it?
Also consider Heb 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." It sounds like God isn't above letting those of us who need it "have it."
Now, I agree that God deals with us on an individual basis. And if someone is of the sort who only requires gentle reminders, He won't "spank." But there are those of us who require a hand more firm, and because of His great love towards us, He will do what is required to bring about obedience.
Whatever form of discipline God uses on His child, it is for the benefit of the child, and is quite different in purpose and severity when compared with God's wrath, which is God dealing with His enemies.
Just because the two can outwardly resemble each other doesn't give them the same essence.
< Message edited by psende -- 11/3/2008 6:36:43 PM >
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"This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/3/2008 6:34:05 PM
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galadriel2
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The difference is in the purpose of God in it. If it is to conform you more to Christ - (Heb. ch. 12) then it is love and is discipline. No person who is 'in Christ' experiences God's wrath as punishment because we were already punished at the cross with Christ for our sins. We are 'in Christ'. Trials may be exactly the same, but the purpose and the outcome of the trials are very different depending on if the person is 'in Christ' or no. God never does anything to destroy His child.
God bless abundantly,
Galadriel
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/3/2008 7:47:01 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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psende --
Because Little_1's OP is about G-d's discipline and G-d's wrath, I do not wish to discuss spanking versus beating. We can take that to another place, if it does not fall within the range of a one-stop thread. However, in spite of the fact that Solomon wrote about beating children, no where in the Bible does it say that G-d "spanks" people as His general mode of discipline.
I have no idea why a believer would want to be so strong-willed against the Savior to be classified as strong-willed and needing a "spanking." That just blows me away. If we love Him, we will desire to please Him and to walk in His ways. Because we are dust, He recognizes that we will not be perfect and will need correction, but needing a "spanking"? I can't imagine that.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/4/2008 3:30:12 AM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psende
......Now, I agree that God deals with us on an individual basis.....
......But there are those of us who require a hand more firm, and because of His great love towards us, He will do what is required to bring about obedience.
Whatever form of discipline God uses on His child, it is for the benefit of the child, and is quite different in purpose and severity when compared with God's wrath, which is God dealing with His enemies.
Just because the two can outwardly resemble each other doesn't give them the same essence.
I tend to agree with this part of terminology you have used psende.
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RE: Discipline or Wrath? - 11/4/2008 1:07:13 PM
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galadriel2
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Christ had to suffer as a human in order to be the perfect Savior for mankind. Trials are no indication of God's wrath or displeasure. Christ has sanctified them. God's discipline, as taught on in Hebrews chapter 12, in no way means that we have to have sin in our lives that we are practicing. It does mean that God's grace upon grace (John 1:16) is conforming us to the likeness of Christ and that there are some things that we have to learn and develop in our lives and learn to do.
God bless,
Galadriel
'But we are as sheep slaughtered daily...we die daily' Paul in Romans 8:37 and 2 Cor. ch. 4.
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