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Another forgiveness question - 10/10/2008 11:26:35 PM
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Prairiehiker
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Is there anything to forgive if you've been hurt by someone who is not aware that her/his action has hurt you? Let's say, they said something that really hurt you, or lead you to believe that what they said has meaning that made you have some expectations that they couldn't live up to, is there anything to forgive in this case?
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/10/2008 11:37:58 PM
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GraceBro
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Think about the sins you have committed that you are not aware you have done. What has God done with those sins?
"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them." 2 Corinthians 5: 18-19
We in turn share what we have received from God with those we encounter in our lives. Since you admit this individual is not aware of the sin, the chances that they will seek your forgiveness are slim. Therefore, in order to free yourself from the bondage you are in, you must release them from the debt they owe you. That is exactly what God did with us. We owed a debt we could not pay. Therefore, in Christ, He forgave our sins without waiting for us to ask Him to do so. By removing the sin that separated us, God is now free to have a relationship with all who have accepted Christ by faith. You can free yourself up to have a relationship with this person, or to move on without needing restitution in order to do so.
Grace and Peace
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/10/2008 11:40:57 PM
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Prairiehiker
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My question was, is there anything to forgive if the person didn't mean it, or doesn't see it to be an offense yet we took offense in their action?
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
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To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/10/2008 11:44:51 PM
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Kellgaste
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Hello my Lady Prairie,
I would recommend that if it bothers you that much, make them aware of it and ask if they intended it the way you recieved it.
If they are made aware of what they did, hurt you and didn't intend it that way I would think they would be shocked, and upset (Sad not mad) that they hurt you thus and they would then appologise.
Its my theory my Lady. First step would be to inform, then to reconcile <warm smile>.
<hugs>
God Bless!!!!
-Kell
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/10/2008 11:50:12 PM
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Prairiehiker
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I did mention it to the person, but no apology was offered, and was told it was my perception that an injustice was done. So, I can infer that the person didn't have a clue that the actions were hurtful. Just the fact that I'm hurt suggest that an offence was done?
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 6:03:34 AM
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Grace-N-Mercy
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(((((PH)))))
quote:
ORIGINAL: ames01
I would say that if you were hurt by the person's actions, then even if they were unintentional, there is probably some sort of negative emotion that you need to deal with for your own peace of mind. So I would say that you do need to forgive them, even if it's just choosing to forgive them in your mind and heart for the unintended hurt they caused you. I hope that makes sense -- not enough coffee in me yet this morning. 
I agree (and this is on a pre-caffeine brain, so beware). But what is forgiveness? Forgiveness is the letting-go of resentment in the face of another's injustice, and responding with kindness to the person who hurt you even though that person has no right to your kindness. Forgiveness is something you do freely, and it is not the same as condoning and excusing, reconciliation, or forgetting. Basically, forgiveness is about you releasing your pain.
So yeah, it looks like there is an injustice to forgive, but whether you tell them about it is up to you.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 6:10:38 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Just the fact that I'm hurt suggest that an offence was done?
Actually no, IMO that isn't necessarily the case.
I will give you an example: someone says something to you, which reminds you of when someone else said something to you in that way in the past, and they intended offence. Because the past person meant it that way, your subconscious assumes this person intended offence too. and because it feels the same, you react and take offence. But in fact, this new person didn't mean it like that at all, it was just the associations that pressed your buttons.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 8:24:42 AM
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Prairiehiker
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For example, supposed you bought a vacuum cleaner from a salesman who showed you all the good qualities of the vacuum. Then, he proceeded to tell you that this is the only vacuum cleaner you'll ever need because it won't fall apart and it will last forever. You bought it because of it's feature plus the talk about longevity made you truly convinced. YOu took it home, used it once, and it died after the first year. Now, do you need to forgive the salesman because your expectations were not met, or is the salesman right in saying, well, you're naive for believing that it will last forever, since what on this earth last forever? It's my perception of what reality is rather than what reality truly is that hurt me, and not his sales pitch, therefore, he owes no apology. Now, is there injustice done that requires forgiveness because I bought into the sales pitch or it was wrong of me to even buy into the sales pitch?
< Message edited by Prairiehiker -- 10/11/2008 8:59:30 AM >
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 11:09:09 AM
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delete123
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PH~
I am sorry you got hurt, but if a person unintentionly offended you and then you brought it to their attention and they refused to see error on their part.
The only thing you can do is bring it to God and ask Him to forgive them for hurting/offending you. And also ask for forgiveness for yourself for misunderstanding the persons intent.
As far as the vaccum cleaner salesman goes, next time buy a vaccum that comes with a warrantly! 
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 11:31:56 AM
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LivingParadox
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Have you ever forgiven someone who intentionally hurt you and remains unrependent? If so, I don't understand why a unintentional hurt would be any harder to forgive. Forgiveness is a daily exercise of letting it go. I've had true harm done to me and it has been done over and over again without acknowlegdement of the wrongs -- and recently without any provocation had the same person reach out after years to try to hurt me again...but I choose to forgive. We are required to forgive whether it was unintentional or not.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 12:10:14 PM
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Prairiehiker
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I'm not saying it's harder or easier to forgive. I"m asking if there's anything to forgive, when maybe it's just my perception that was not correct, and I suffered harm not because of the person's action, but my incorrect perception of what the truth is caused my harm.
If I hurt you by saying "hey, let's do coffee one day", and you waited for me to call you to do coffee, but I never did call, because for me. saying "let's do lunch/coffee" is just a nice thing to say when you bump into someone, sort of like "have a nice day", then, did I cause you any harm because you expected me to follow up on it? Or is it your perception of the seriousness of my statement that caused you any hurt feelings? Should you have to forgive me? Should I have to apologize?
Of course, my situation is much more serious than having coffee or buying a vacuum cleaner, lol. I just can't get into it.
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 12:19:36 PM
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LivingParadox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
I'm not saying it's harder or easier to forgive. I"m asking if there's anything to forgive, when maybe it's just my perception that was not correct, and I suffered harm not because of the person's action, but my incorrect perception of what the truth is caused my harm.
If I hurt you by saying "hey, let's do coffee one day", and you waited for me to call you to do coffee, but I never did call, because for me. saying "let's do lunch/coffee" is just a nice thing to say when you bump into someone, sort of like "have a nice day", then, did I cause you any harm because you expected me to follow up on it? Or is it your perception of the seriousness of my statement that caused you any hurt feelings? Should you have to forgive me? Should I have to apologize?
Of course, my situation is much more serious than having coffee or buying a vacuum cleaner, lol. I just can't get into it.
I'd talk to the person to get understanding of your feelings and their feelings (which I think you said you've already done). Let them know why you needed to talk about it and if the instance is more serious -- choose to forgive but if it's something serious enough let it be a guide in dealing with this person in the future. If your feelings were hurt, you are the one who will have to let it go. You don't have control of how another receives this information but you've done your part to be a peacemaker. Forgiveness is as much for you as it is for them.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 12:24:58 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
I'd talk to the person to get understanding of your feelings and their feelings (which I think you said you've already done). Let them know why you needed to talk about it and if the instance is more serious -- choose to forgive but if it's something serious enough let it be a guide in dealing with this person in the future. If your feelings were hurt, you are the one who will have to let it go. You don't have control of how another receives this information but you've done your part to be a peacemaker. Forgiveness is as much for you as it is for them
Thank you.
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 4:39:32 PM
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willfs
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I think it all has to do with what forgiveness means. I think it simply means you go on loving the person in the best manner you can. If someone has done something to hurt me and they don't realize it (or do know and never ask for forgiveness) I can still forgive them. Which means I choose to love them. Depending on the offense and number of times I might choose to hang around them less or something like that. It might also be a good idea to go speak to them about the manner.
But I am still working on loving those who don't even do harm to me.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 5:59:37 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Is there anything to forgive if you've been hurt by someone who is not aware that her/his action has hurt you? Yes, if we are feeling negatively towards someone because they've hurt us, we need to forgive them ~ even if they don't realise they've hurt us or don't apologise for it when we've made it known.
You don't forgive someone because you've received an apology from them. You forgive them because, as a Christian, you're required to forgive them.
quote:
Now, do you need to forgive the salesman because your expectations were not met, or is the salesman right in saying, well, you're naive for believing that it will last forever, since what on this earth last forever? Now, is this the situation, or is this a hypothetical situation? If it's the situation, and the cleaner broke after just one year, I'd actually contact the store and the manufacturer about it. Many will repair the cleaner as a gesture of customer service. I did exactly that with a camera lens I had years back.
Right now, I'm in a position where I'm furious with the company that I have my landline phone with. A fault occured at the exchange and I was sent a bill for over £200 ($350+US). I've had 2 people with the company tell me that I shouldn't be liable for this and should never have been sent the bill but it's still not resolved more than 3 weeks later. Am I angry? Darn right. Have I forgiven them. Well it was actually a robot (so I'm told!) that charged me so I don't see that I can forgive an inate object. Have I forgive the CSA's I've spoken to? Well, just, it's not their fault ~ but I'm still thinking of changing the phone company because of their attitude. I'm probably more angry about the CSA's who chose to get my marital status wrong, despite looking at my account information.
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 6:44:33 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
Now, is this the situation, or is this a hypothetical situation? If it's the situation, and the cleaner broke after just one year, I'd actually contact the store and the manufacturer about it. Many will repair the cleaner as a gesture of customer service. I did exactly that with a camera lens I had years back
LOL....this is just a hypothetical situation. It's a personal relationship situation that involved some bone numbing pain. But I didn't want to elaborate. Imagine the salesman as your friend offering you something that's good, and you buying into it and finding out it was just a sales pitch so he can make a sale.
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 7:23:17 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Imagine the salesman as your friend offering you something that's good, and you buying into it and finding out it was just a sales pitch so he can make a sale. Thing is about buying anything is that ultimately it is our decision. I've spoken to people about things I've made but I've also read up about them as much as I could. When I've finally decided, I buy whatever it is. Most of the time, I'm happy with what I buy. Sometimes I'm not. Who can I blame? The people (friends, family, sales person) who suggested I buy it or myself? Was it (as I suggested earlier) something that is wrong with the product itself? Or is it simply an unfortunate purchase.
Friend or not, this sales rep friend needs to live and has been told lots of info about the product (naturally, all positive) to encourage you to buy. Perhaps it is a lesson to you to do research (ask questions of people about the product you're interested in, ask the sales rep what item they'd buy ~ and why, check out online sites about it) and weigh your options up.
And rememeber, all relationships at some time will cause a degree of pain. Sometimes it is acknowledged and an apology is offered. Sometimes it isn't. In all cases we must forgive the person and learn from what has happened ~ ie a salesman may also be your friend, but they may not wear both hats at the same time!
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 7:37:59 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
Thing is about buying anything is that ultimately it is our decision. I've spoken to people about things I've made but I've also read up about them as much as I could. When I've finally decided, I buy whatever it is. Most of the time, I'm happy with what I buy. Sometimes I'm not. Who can I blame? The people (friends, family, sales person) who suggested I buy it or myself? Was it (as I suggested earlier) something that is wrong with the product itself? Or is it simply an unfortunate purchase.
Friend or not, this sales rep friend needs to live and has been told lots of info about the product (naturally, all positive) to encourage you to buy. Perhaps it is a lesson to you to do research (ask questions of people about the product you're interested in, ask the sales rep what item they'd buy ~ and why, check out online sites about it) and weigh your options up.
And rememeber, all relationships at some time will cause a degree of pain. Sometimes it is acknowledged and an apology is offered. Sometimes it isn't. In all cases we must forgive the person and learn from what has happened ~ ie a salesman may also be your friend, but they may not wear both hats at the same time!
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NO, lol. There was no salesman, no salespitch, no product. This was about a relationship, lol. Let's just say, I bought into some really flowery words of some friend, which turned out to be not true and I was blamed for believing or perceiving something that he didn't intend to be. That's where my "forgiving" issue is coming from.
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 7:59:15 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
I bought into some really flowery words of some friend So someone told you that your brand new hairstyle looked great and you believed them but on reflection you realised that the blue and green Mohican you got didn't really suit you and you were upset.
Perhaps your friend was trying to not hurt you? Perhaps you were vain in being too ready to believe what they said?
Either way, bottom line, whatever the situation, just forgive the person and move on. I have absolutely no idea what the situation you are in is, nor how serious. You were hurt, yes. How badly in the grand scheme of things, only you know. I'm sorry you were hurt. What else can I say?
And just because you have forgiven this person doesn't mean that you need to stay friends with them ~ but you have to consider whether this issue is worth losing a friend over or not ~ and to answer that, I guess it depends on how good a friend this person was and how deep the hurt was, or as Manda said, whether you did misinterpret the meaning...
That is, if you are actually talking about a friend who said something that hurt you or if this is another hypothetical situation.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 8:16:06 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
NO, lol. There was no salesman, no salespitch, no product. This was about a relationship, lol. Let's just say, I bought into some really flowery words of some friend, which turned out to be not true and I was blamed for believing or perceiving something that he didn't intend to be. That's where my "forgiving" issue is coming from.
Are you sure it's not yourself you could do with forgiving over this? Quite often, we think we're angry or hurt with someone else, when it's actually ourselves we're mad with and need to forgive, for not watching out for/protecting ourselves and "being there" for ourselves.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/11/2008 11:55:36 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
Either way, bottom line, whatever the situation, just forgive the person and move on.
I posted because I know that forgiveness isn't some cheap grace that we can do so easily and without giving much thought. Forgiveness requires an offense to forgive. That was my original question. I didn't want to write the situation, well, because it's a bit too painful so I used a lot of hypothetical situations.
Perhaps Manda was right...when people say something, it's my fault for believing without any evidence and I need to forgive myself for being naive and trusting. This is why rape victims and abused victims don't come out...they fear that they should blame themselves and it's their fault. Hmmm...not a healthy way to think or advice anyone.
< Message edited by Prairiehiker -- 10/12/2008 9:16:43 AM >
_____________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork. Psalm 19: 1
____________________________________
To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven. King Solomon
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RE: Another forgiveness question - 10/13/2008 1:45:01 AM
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agapetos
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quote:
Forgiveness requires an offense to forgive. You feel that someone has offended you. Whatever was done or said, it has caused you distress.
Some years back, I was seeing a GP who left the surgery she worked at (she was offered a partnership at another one, so I don't blame her!). Before we left, she and I discussed who would be best to take over my care. We agreed on someone and she spoke with the doctor who was happy to do so.
Some weeks later, I met a lady I knew (through church) and considered a friend. This 'friend' had also been seeing the same (initial) doctor as me (when she needed to, which was rarely) and asked me who I was seeing now. Her response, when I told her my new doctor was 'You shouldn't be seeing her, she's far to busy!' Now, did this lady mean to cause me the turmoil and offense she did? Probably not, she did go on to say that when she'd moved to the area she wanted to be registered with said doctor but wasn't able to. However, she did cause me offense and turmoil and it took some time for me to resolve this.
It's not something that I've ever mentioned to her, nor do I intend to, and it's probably not as serious a situation as the one you are in. However, it is a situation that caused me hurt.
quote:
Perhaps Manda was right...when people say something, it's my fault for believing without any evidence and I need to forgive myself for being naive and trusting. This is why rape victims and abused victims don't come out...they fear that they should blame themselves and it's their fault. Hmmm...not a healthy way to think or advice anyone. I think you misunderstood what Manda was saying.
I have found it very hard to understand the situation you are in because you don't want to disclose it. I have no problem with you not disclosing it. It just makes it difficult for me to fully understand fully.
For whatever reason, you chose to take this person's views as legitimate and then it was shown they were wrong. The result was you were hurt. Now, you can blame this person for causing you hurt, and work on forgiving them, even if they don't acknowledge their words and actions have caused you pain. You can also look at why you were so ready to accept this individual's comments as gospel. I know that in the past, I've been badly hurt by someone saying something about me and because of that, I've blamed not only the person, but myself for being so trusting as to believe them. I've learnt since then (perhaps not in every case, but in many) to not depend on any one person for the truth, but to look to a variety of people I know and to trust myself too.
quote:
This is why rape victims and abused victims don't come out...they fear that they should blame themselves and it's their fault. The thing is rape victims and victims of abuse do blame themselves and they shouldn't. Very often though, they still need to forgive themselves for doing whatever they needed to do (yes, even if it meant doing something that was contrary to their nature) in order to survive their ordeal.
I was in a situation some years back when I did something wihc was simply not in my nature to do, but circumstances led me to do it because I could see no other option. It was someone else who caused me to act so out of character and I had to work hard, not only on forgiving them, but on forgiving myself for getting into the situation.
And it was far easier for me to speak of what the other person had done to me, than it was to talk about my actions.
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